The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Paris, France, from 12 to 14 November 2018. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> CHANG LIU: OKAY. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a session about governance for Paris Agreement and the sustainable development goals. Workshop number, what? Okay. Just for our workshop. So, today we have our three panelists. We have one hour in this session, only one hour, 60 minutes. We have three panelists. Professor, would you introduce yourself?
>> RICARDO PELAYO: Okay. Hello, everyone, thank you for the invitation. My name is Ricardo Israel Robles Pelayo, I am from Mexico. I'm a lawyer and professor. I'm glad to be here. I'm going to talk about the laws in Mexico that regulate what happened in the big data according to Mexico. So, thank you very much.
>> CHANG LIU: Thank you and Ana, would you introduce yourself?
>> ANA NEVES: Good morning and thank you very much for the invitation. So, I'm Ana Neves, I'm Director of the Department for the Information Society at the Foundation for Science and Technology in Portugal. And I'm going to about the public sector data, and the general revelation on data protection that was launched in May.
>> CHANG LIU: Thank you very much. I am Liu Chang from Academy of Chinese Sciences. I am geographer and focused on Big Data publishing and also Keio chair for the data publishing in developing countries.
So, in today, we will have our, this class about the big data issues. Before that, we give the background and the objectives of the workshop. This ‑‑ Martin, would you? Come up? Yeah. So, we're looking at from devices to the sustainable development goals, you'll see that especially for the poverty alleviation and the hungry free clean water ecosystem and the environment and so on. But, the data in the folder, OECD data from the data, they're 86 from the OACD countries. Only 14 percent from developing countries so this is a big problem. And the Keio data is a task group in the developing countries 2002 and then we have serious workshops ‑‑ a series of workshops in the different countries, focus on strategy, solution, commercial buildings, for example, China, South Africa, Mongolia, Columbia, Cuba, India, Madagascar and so on.
And then, we also have, so you can see this, we also have the Chinese association for science and technology and work hard for the UN so each internet governance forum, we will head there to discuss about the solutions.
And also, we have not only this, we joined in United Nations in New York. We proposed to share the research data and this actually is accepted by the United Nations and then we developed Nairobi sharing principles and from the international organizations all agree, this is good for the developing countries.
So, this is the background. So, today, with the objectives of this workshop, we are on a forum to find a solution and to propose joint actions and the focus on guidelines for implementation and governance of data sharing principles for Paris Agreement and the Sustainable Development Goals. Now, this is, today, what do we want to do? Okay. And then before the two panels, I would like one case. One case study. This is a case from chain you, the open data of the trust, how the data opens and the trust data so we call this solution which are handicap solution. Sorry, this name, then we give the, the explanation, so, as six dimensions, so, for our data publishing, report, sharing, citation, impact and the networking. Okay? So, the solution that we have sixth dimensions. First one is data publishing. So, we have this data publishing system and that's as far as everybody can access the data from the website, no more than three clicks, you'll be able to get the data. Also, we have the data paper describe the data, what the data is, and how to use the data that we use general so that the global change and the discovery journal.
And then, second dimension is data repository. Right now, there are also the data published and repository that is more than 400 data sets. This comes from 12 countries. The authors and Keio authors, more than 300. More than 700 from more than 300 organizations. So, this is, and the third one is data sharing. And we have data sharing policy so everyone can download. Right now, more than 1 million users and more than 30,000 users worldwide from 74 countries so every day the data can be downloaded, increased, everything.
Fourth one I mention is data networking. So, in the data networking, we, in networking, all of these go into the DOI registration. And then, also, networking to the work data system. This is a data publishing system is the ‑‑ of what's acceptable and also, just data provider and the broker, networking. Also, China, geo data publisher center. Also, is networking to the data citation index of your collaborative analytics. And data publishing infrastructure for co‑data has a group in development country so all these kind of things networking so we have this category of ‑‑ this year. Because the data money users. The next dimension is data citation. We identified the data for five groups and the data archive the workday center or open in national data center or the data is everybody can publish into the network, what the internal worth and so on. And again, we make the data citation, there's two ways for data citation. One is, if you're in the publisher article. So, if the references sight. And another in the full notice of the articles.
And then, we have 36 journals drawing this data citation practice partners in China. And then the last one is data impact. So, many centers that don't want to publish the data just to keep in their computer because they don't know, they didn't on the weather, they're on the benefit. So, we use the data impact methodology. Now, everybody can understand what contribution your data could be. So, we developed other data science impacted the score. And then, calculate data site. The just ‑‑ and also, all the others, you've got the impact score. And for December, this data is the boundary and this is the other, we publish the data and the publisher of the paper. And then, who uses the data, and then we calculate their 11 years of data. And the number, so get that certificate, so I was very happy.
So, this is a summary. Data publishing, repository, sharing, networking, share, citation, impact. So, we call this a data handicap solution. Is practical solution of the global search data publishing and the repository data publishing system. So, data handicap solution is for the data openly, quality, trustee and timely which are critical for sciences and stability. Thank you. So next,
>> ANA NEVES: Thank you very much. So, now I will give my presentation will be about this important open data and this new general data protection regulation from the European union. So, the point here is always getting knowledge from the public sector data. And the second one, please. So, here, I want to show how all this Big Data can improve the research and innovation and serve the 17 SDGs. So, this is to show how important it is what is happening now with the GDPR. So, in a nutshell, well, we can see data from the controller that is established in the European union. And the controller that is outside the European union, but we are always talking about subject in European union. The controller or processor is the person who determines why and how the personal data should be processed.
Okay. So here we have what means personal data and what is the special personal data that are totally to have any process, or to be processed. So, personal data, its name, personal, the passport's name, the personal, sorry, the passport number, the online identifier, and the special personal data as you can see here is about racial ethnicity, political opinions, sexual life, et cetera. So, these are not processed. So, the main principles relating to processing of known sensitive personal data. So, are these ones that I present here, so, the main points are that they have to be processed lawfully, fairly, and in a disparate manner, be collected and only specify specific and legitimate purpose and not be further processed in any further manner. Be adequate, be accurate, not be kept as identifiable data for longer than necessary as far as the purpose is concerned. And we processed in a manner that ensures appropriate security.
So, we are talking about integrity and confidentiality. What I think is most important here for this workshop is archiving in public interest and historical research data. So, we have under the GDPR delegation under article 89 where we have safe guards for this kind of data. So, we've seen these ones, the right of data by data subject, right to purification, et cetera. So you have here all these, and as I think these PowerPoint will be put in an open manner, you can have here all of these delegations and all these safe guards in a nutshell. So, you don't have to see the regulation. You have all the information here. The next one, please.
So, here, you can see in a very practical way what happens with this data. So, the first option is that if it is personal information to be transferred, if it is data lawfully collected and processed, if the purpose of the transfer lawful and to compatible, the one for which the data were initially collected or, and processed, yes. They can be shared. If the data protection rules do not apply interest that may not take place, so, there is no transfer. So, in any other options, there is no transfer. So, no sharing of data. The second option is when there is adequacy decision. If there is not so, there is no way to share data and the transfer may take place under this second option.
The third option. So, it's about the delegations for specific situations. For example, data subject is explicitly consenting to the proposed transfer after having been informed of the possible risks of such transfers for the data subject to the absence of any inadequacy decision and the project safe guard. So, here, we are talking about the data that serve research and that are very important. So, we have them here under the third option. So, I think it was a very straight presentation. Not to have the complexity of the regulation because in a nutshell I think what I presented is important for getting knowledge from the public sector data and still under these new regulations, a lot can be done, but with the private new rules that are adequate and are necessary to go. Thank you.
>> CHANG LIU: Thank you very much. That's very important, this GDPR. And I think this is a new policy.
>> ANA NEVES: Since May?
>> CHANG LIU: Yeah, and also it's very important not only for European but for the whole world.
>> ANA NEVES: Right.
>> CHANG LIU: Thank you. So, next ‑‑
>> ANA NEVES: If I can only say something, well, it's, so, what I meant with this presentation is about data that will be shared with the world and the world share with European union. So, you have here the rules and the delegations and to our data that we are talking here and open data, they are under the delegations and so if we are not talking about private data, as I explained, so, all this data can be shared and, of course, open.
>> CHANG LIU: Yeah. Very, very important. Good. Thank you very much, then, please.
>> RICARDO PELAYO: Thank you very much. So, I'm going to talk about the Big Data and the human rights according to the Mexican law and the governance and legal issues of that have access. Next slide, please. So, what is a problem to protect data on the internet and problem to protect them from the information obtained from big data in Mexico? Well, in Mexico, like any other country in the world, personal data traffic has increased rapidly. The economic value of obtaining this information is one of the most important factors for the public and private sector, to be interested in its legal regulation.
Therefore, we find in Big Data and important information tool of our times to fulfill that proposal. However, the use of information obtained to Big Data is one of the major problems in our days, regardless of whether the information is exposed consensually or unconsensually by users of information technology. Next, please.
What is the position of the Mexican government to protect the personal data of the individuals of the public and private sectors. Well, the Mexican authority have made a great effort to regulate the protection of users' personal data to the creation of national laws or adoption of international legal instruments. Next, please.
The legal framework in Mexico is the political Constitution of the united Mexican estates, the federal laws and their regulations, the official Mexican standards about the international regulation, we adopted the convention 100 days for individuals with result of automatic proceedings of personal data and also some international standards.
In the Mexican Constitution, human rights are recognized and established. With regard to the protection of personal data, article 6 established the information that refers to private life and personal data with the protect in the terms and with the expectation established by law. Article 16 of the same Constitution states, everyone has a right to the protection of their personal data, access, rectification and cancellation of them as well as to express their opposition in the terms established by law which shall establish the cases of exception through the process that can ban the processing of data. For reasons of national security, public order, public health and safety regulations or to protect rights of third parties.
There are also federal laws for the protection of personal data. Without distinguishing whether the information is obtained through the Big Data or any other source of information. And the most important are, the federal law of protection of personal data held by individuals and this law is addressed to the private sector. The general law for the protection of personal data in possession of obligated subjects with this law is addressed to the public sector and the law of advanced electronic signature, this addressed to the public and private sector. The protection of personal data is also regulated to the following official Mexican standards. The information technologies security techniques go off practice for the ‑‑ scope of practice for the protection of personal data for public Cloud service providers as their official goal is NMXI27 up with 08, NYCE2016. The standards agree with the international standard ICO7018201 pho. The other official Mexican standard is named health acknowledgement information established functional objectives and functionalities that the products of an electronic, little file system must serve to guarantee they know interoperability, proceedings computation, confidentiality, safety, and use of standards and catalogs of the information of electronic health records. The official code is MOM024SS82410.
According to their regular regulation, last June, Mexico adopted the convention 108 for the protection of individuals with regard to automatic proceeding of personal data. This represents the harmonization, the flow of information and ‑‑ harmonization. However, the advance in technology, use of information used in Big Data as well as information used in social networks go faster than any rule created by man. Next, please. The responsible authorities for protection of data in Mexico, institutional, the transform is, in English P national institute of transparency access to information and protection of personal data. Whose responsibility is to guarantee their right of access of people to public government information, protect personal data is in the hands of both federal governments and individuals. However, it sooms before it's made, my Mexican authorities have been overcome by the advancement of technology and the lack of control over that traffic through information technologies. For the reason, it means the best way to protect personal data is through implementation of a law that aims to educate and inform all the people how they can protect your personal data, consider us parts of human rights particularly the right to the privacy. So, this is my participation. Thank you very much.
>> CHANG LIU: Thank you. Thank you very much for sharing this Mexico experience about the balancing the open access data, public data, and the protect the personal data. So, I think that's European, the same idea.
>> ANA NEVES: Can I ask? May I?
>> CHANG LIU: Sure.
>> ANA NEVES: Thank you very much. I just would like to know if Mexico is aware of these GDPR and if it was thought as something against the sharing of data or if it was not even an issue from Mexico.
>> RICARDO PELAYO: Well, it's a real concern. We are concerned about that but you know the authorities in Mexico are creating a Mexican legislation about to protect and combat all these kind of activities but we are in that process. We are also now days created other laws like fintech who is also in the financial activities but we are now regulating according to the move of the world so we are concerned about it. Thank you.
>> CHANG LIU: Okay. So now we go to the interjection dialogue. So, any questions? Go ahead. So, first, you say your name and then where you come from and then the question.
>> ANA: Okay. Hello, my name is Ana. I am an IGF follower and moderator and very interested in cybersecurity and GDPR, and I would like to ask, regarding Mexico, compared to other countries of Latin America that have been a lot of workshops talking about difficulties of the Brazil, Argentina, the difference of creating their own security, the approval of different authorities to do this without being ruled as a media system. Compared to Latin America, how is Mexico doing with these regulations? With these facility and legislation?
>> RICARDO PELAYO: Well, I consider that we are in a good place talking about Latin America so as I said, we also have created new regulation about the financials. The call of Fintech and financial technologies so in this, I think we are the first country in the world regulating this but we need the secondary law to apply in America, so I think we are in a good position around Latin American country.
>> Okay.
>> CHANG LIU: Any question? Any other questions? So, I have question to Ana. Because this is financing, there's open public data and prevented personal data. How balancing the two different issue, the data?
>> ANA NEVES: So, the point here is that private data that we are talking about and that we want to protect under the GDPR, it's really the ones that I mentioned like name, passport number, et cetera. All the others, the data that are totally, it needs to be processed as the ones about ethnicity, racial, religion, or any of these ones that are foreseen in the regulation as well. Regarding the data call that serve these communities that are particularly really important so I don't see here any problem because they are anonymized so they serve the purpose and we don't have any problem, any private, any problems with personal data. I don't know if you have any other questions for me, but I would like to know here with people that we have here, if any person here, if they do research and if GDPR is seen as an obstacle or not for the research between Europe and the world. Thank you.
>> CHANG LIU: Thank you so much. Any questions? So, lady, where did you come from? Lady?
(inaudible)
>> CHANG LIU: M‑hmm. Good. So how about you? If you have question?
>> No, I have no questions.
>> CHANG LIU: Okay. My question is where you come from?
>> I come from Benin. Do you know Benin?
>> CHANG LIU: Good. So, other questions? Go ahead.
>> Now you're giving me an opportunity. There have been two interesting workshops regarding social networks. One of them was Wikipedia and they were explaining the simple, Wikipedia development for the framework. What is your opinion, the three of you, considering that if the community is strong enough to have an auto regulation, auto control, the need of expertise either lawyers or any kind of people who will be really taking security at the risk of educating the users also the full 30 ‑‑ how do you think of avoiding, how do you think of having a good system of regulation for the social networks and avoiding having an expert or a chief officer security or any other kind of outsider intervention?
>> ANA NEVES: It is a very interesting question, and you raised a lot of different things in your question. But my comment and my observation to that is the following. Normally, we defend an open, accessible internet and with no regulation, it has been a principle. Nonetheless, we saw a kind of violation of data, dissemination of data that was not foreseen and so governments in Europe, for instance, they saw that they felt that they had to do something, and why the GDPR born and was adopted. So, men are always behind the issues. And in technology, we are really, really behind. So, we have to have more digital competences to understand where we are going and to better foresee what will be the future to avoid and to be more active than passive. And so, I don't, I'm not certain whether it is always regulation, but we need really principles. I don't know if it is a charter. I don't know if it is good enough. But, this is a really multi‑stakeholder approach to have here some principles to guide as in the social networks. Social networks, they are very good, I think. They are very positive, they open as a new world but of course as everything that is good, it's always a bad thing. So, we have some and we have range so we have always these tools to think the positive and the negative. But, technology can be used for very, very bad things but it can be used for amazing things.
So, my point here is to insist on the capacity building on digital competencies for governments and all the stakeholders perceive where we are and what can be the technology in one year, in five years, in ten years.
>> RICARDO PELAYO: Well, my point of view is, as I said, in Mexico, it's a big issue. The social networks is out of control, you know? And even the last year we had the presidential election so the fake news and all this bad information was over the networks, Facebook and the others but I really think that according to the Mexican law, it's very difficult to regulate and control all this information, Intel and personal data. So, I really think that the best way to avoid all the bad things that are happening in the network is like to educate and inform the people how to use responsibly the networks. So, I think it's the only way that we can avoid all the bad things that is happening on the network is the only solution I can believe is going to be. Thank you.
>> CHANG LIU: From China case, I think that to most of the challenging is how to share the data. And some professors they create data. But, it isn't in public available to share. So there's because we need infrastructure, we need the policy, we need the networking, the whole data sharing environment. So, that is why we decide six dimensions, six dimensions, not the only one dimension. Only policy put there, but to follow, for example, regional, we have data policy, so, data should be openly available to everyone. But, some say, takes a long time. I prefer to use my time to publish a paper. So, but, this is ament pray. So, this is not only, it's a policy issue. But, infrastructure create it and data quality and everything pulled together. So, that is, I said, only one dimension. Maybe not perfect. So, after 20 years experience in China, we're looking for the solution. Finally, we use six dimensions. So, publishing, a long term preservation repository and then sharing openly available sharing and then networking, networking globally. So, and again, if you use the data, you need a copyright. Citation. You need a copyright. You need to the data algorithms then we can calculate what the data impacts and then we can find who uses your data to do what kind of science, project.
So, hold the scientific data, circle it. An again, everybody happy. So, this is environment. So, that's we, four years ago, we have this data, open data sharing principle in Nairobi. We call it Nairobi open data sharing principles in developing countries. So I'd like to add that we discuss and discuss again focus on the implementation. So, finally, we find this works. In China, we have a training program for more than 20 countries. Santista in Asia and developing countries come to China, we have training and again, some of them are leaders. The leader, data manager, some of them, Santi is the technology engineering people. But, they decided this works. So, they also, they sent us some, they send data published.
And so, I think this is practical dimension. As to how we implement of the policy. So, and then developing countries are so different from USA and European country, OECD, is so different.
And infrastructure is not perfect. Sometimes it doesn't work so we need the international collaboration and developing country to set up the infrastructure so that is, the global change research data published on the repository is infrastructure for the code data in developing countries.
So, all development countries, they report their data for all for free. And then, also, not only for report data, publishing data but also provide the training program. And we have policies, if everybody, whole world, if you download the data free and then no more than three clicks, you've got the data. So, SameTime. And we require the users’ data.
And also, we have 10 percent policy, protect intellectual property. What does that mean, 10 percent policy? That means that if you, some have users, they are not using a whole amount of data. They use from this insight, take some record. And then they take some record, and then composite it into a new website and they said, this is my data. Well, yes or not. So, I will give this a policy is a yes button. What does it mean? It means if you take some out of the record, okay. But no more than 10 percent of all of this and you have to copyright where the 10 percent come from. So, recognize where your data come from. So, in this way, I think that everybody is happy. Everybody is happy. So, I'm so happy, you're so happy. 10 percent foundation that they invest the money, they said, oh, my money's got the benefit. Okay. Good. So, we almost ready after today's discussion, so next year, we will reach out to Mexico and the professor is nominated to be the co‑chair of the co‑data task group in developing countries. Very soon, maybe one week, Vira published, gave a formal announcement but now is had already approved. I know. So, I think next year, we will have finalized guideline. So, the data sharing principle implementation deadline in developing countries, so, that takes reduce to 30 wide. So, we implemented it locally, everybody acting in the local country. But, networking, globally. So, via whole thing. Benefit whole society. So, this is my, our answer. So, not only for my personal by our team, co‑data team. And also, is the ‑‑ member. So, this is our answer.
But we do hope you use our data and acknowledge them after, and they will be happy. Thank you. Any other questions? Go ahead.
>> ROBERT: Hello. I'm Robert from the common telecommunications organization. Thank you very much. I would like to ask the question, what more can be done on an international level to encourage data sharing? Are all countries involved in sharing data for the good of the Paris Agreement and SDGs or are some governments slow and what are the reasons for that?
>> ANA NEVES: This question is something that I was thinking about when professor was talking about co‑data and what this organization is doing for the digital divide, that is very, very important. But, I'm going to try to reply to you with a question to professor that is, how does big data sharing is seen by the government? Meaning, is it a public policy led by the government? Or at the researcher level only?
>> CHANG LIU: Yeah, we have divided the data into three different categories. One is government data. It's government founded it and the government data. Second is public founding supported the research data. And third one is the private company something. But, of course, now, another group comes. It's a citizen data.
Citizen, that they make the photos and they are saying, it's citizen data. So, actually, a full group, a category is data. But, for we research data, public found data, research data. So, this kind of data is different from the government, the data from private data. More conflict data. On the very important for sustainable development because there's the research. Many of them are very happy for understanding just the society and understand science and technology. So, that is a very important part.
Right now, you're in China, not only China. I think in the whole developing country, there are similar things. There are journals. In China, we have 5,000 journals and mostly, every year, we have 26 ‑‑ let me. How much? 2 million, about, paper publishers. But, most of them, 80 percent, I think, at least 80 percent paper will based under data, paper. But, paper published but data, where's the data? All the way in the computer. The personal computer. Not the published.
So, this is a big problem. So, now, we are working with journal publishers, publishers of open data and the open knowledge together. So we call it open science. So, of course, it's most difficult thing is, challenging thing is open data. So, we focus on several years, if it's a problem, about the data. Now, we link to the general. Link those are papers, an audience, so we can data and the knowledge establish the open size for this to understand what development goals.
But, how to publish them? We use peer review. Papers are peer reviewed, but data is also peer reviewed. Definitely need data trust is quality data. So, in the UN, I, in South Africa, I think the UN world data conference forum said, quality data and timely data is critical. So, how to make the data quality? High quality? So, trust it. So, have to peer review. This is the only way. So, we use a peer review methodology in the publishing data. So, this is, and this is not the only one way, but also we publish the data is not good, the user can make comments. User says, this data is wrong. This is not good. So, we feedback into the answer then add it there. So, this is a way we are working. And I think the co‑data XUWDS system and geo and RDA research data alliance. So, we all work on this for this. So. M‑hmm. Any other questions? Go ahead.
>> Good morning. Can you hear me? Martha Diaz from Portugal. My question is for the whole panel. So, in my perspective, GDPR is an example of a regulation for good, but, it obviously created some restrictions concerning that of data flow. So, my question is, if in the end of the day, scientific research and big data analysis, for instance, is facing now new obstacles and how to solve that?
>> ANA NEVES: It's a very good question and that was something that I was trying to explain before. That is research data sharing. They have now this new framework, and this new framework, it doesn't damage anything about research. It only helps to protect private and personal data. Why? Because we are talking in research data, we are mainly talking about anonymized data, so, there is no problem. But, here, we are talking about a top‑down policy. And I would like to know if in China, the government is pushing for this kind of policy or if it is only a movement from the researchers? Whether it is a topdown approach or a bottom‑up.
>> CHANG LIU: I think there's two choices. One is top‑down, regular data sharing regulation of China is new one. And also, bottom‑up methodology, rules of data center, data publishing. So, two ways linked together. So, I think original only one way. Top‑down. It's not perfect. But, it works. So, the two ways work together. So, that works. So, that is, you have a professor, he said, this is new ‑‑ of data sharing in China. Two linked together.
>> ANA NEVES: That is why science so important.
>> CHANG LIU: Yes, all scientist are active. We're avenue. So, this doesn't something in their data for publishing they don't need the tool. I just, high quality data published. No, it's smaller, they want beautiful data, probably. So, I think this is a good way to put together.
Okay. So, one more question?
>> Yeah. Is good. Thanks. So, I'm quite aware about European framework regarding mainly GDPR, but, I'm quite curious about the legal framework concerning the China environment and of course, Mexico. Can you add some information on that? Thank you.
>> RICARDO PELAYO: Okay. Talking about the research, it's about concern of intellectual property in Mexico. So, we have a federal law that protects all the creation from the researchers. But, fortunately, the law is a little bit slow and we cannot protect the intellectual property that is from, or are from the big data, for example. So, actually, we have concerns about what happens around the world and we want to adopt all these kind of criteria to regulate all the intellectual property, so we are observing what is happening. And we are taking our task to do as well. Thank you very much.
>> CHANG LIU: China right now is no problem. China has research on, no doubt to get together how to coverage in the European. So, next ten days, I will come again, to talk to European to Brazil to talk about the coverage in China, European coverage on the data sharing. So, I think that's GDPR is one of topics for how China works on this with European. So, I think that's GDPR is not only European law, but the China, we are, I think. This is basic for our coverage.
>> ANA NEVES: Yeah. it's interesting, yeah.
>> CHANG LIU: Yeah, very important and also is contribution to the world.
>> ANA NEVES: Absolutely.
>> CHANG LIU: Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, we have very good discussions, very good presentation. And thank you very much for your panels. And we will keep open and anyone have more questions and keep contacting with us. Thank you, thank you very much.