[Wg-mwp] Fwd: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme

Lynn St.Amour Lynn at Internet-Matters.org
Fri Apr 5 13:00:31 EDT 2019


Dear WG members,

would very much like to hear from WG members on the graphic and specifically on Marilyn’s suggestion.

Thanks in advance,

Lynn

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> Date: April 5, 2019 at 8:14:05 AM EDT
> To: Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org>
> Cc: "Igfregionals at intgovforum.org" <igfregionals at intgovforum.org>, "B at lucabelli.net" <LB at lucabelli.net>, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com>
> 
> I appreciate seeing the Chair's response.  It is welcomed. 
> 
> I especially appreciated Luca's and Lorena's earlier posts.
> 
> I think the concern about the graphic is well placed and well founded. 
> 
> In looking at the graphic which was published by a WG chaired by the IGF Chair, I am disappointed that it found its way into being "reported out".  Images have a way of conveying information that can be "misconveying". 
> This one seems to be an example. However, it "lives" on, so it continues to misconvey.
> 
> I appreciate that the Chair of MAG suggests that it is not intended. 
> 
> I find myself very challenged to understand why it has not been withdrawn already, if it has erroneous information.  It doesn't say DRAFT, or to be approved. It is entitled:IGF-WG-MWP PROPOSAL: MULTI YEAR FRAMEWORK FOR IGF.  This label makes it look like it is approved by this WG. 
> 
> ISSUES WITH THE GRAPHIC FROM MY PERSPECTIVE RE THE NRIS: 
> It clearly shows the DCs and NRIs being "approved" by the MAG approval process at second meeting.
> As it presently stands, it seems to convey an approval process by the MAG.
> The "shadow" circle also identifies the need for a process for allocation of DC and NRI sessions.
> 
> It seems to me,  if the MAG and Chair want to show full recognition of the organic nature of the DCs and NRIs. a better choice of language is needed. ... something more like "collaborative efforts with DCs and NRIs".  
> 
> Rather than MAG approval process.. showing the NRIs and DCs being reviewed by the MAG.
> 
> So,I have a concrete suggestion.  Let's fix this.  The WG and MAG Chair can simply withdraw the graphic. Formally. The link should not continue to have a document that is according to the Chair, not the formal perspective. It needs to say: withdrawn/not approved, or something of that nature so that it is not continuing to be available as what seems to be an approved recommendation from a WG chaired by the MAG chair. 
> 
> I do not speak for any others, but I do understand clearly how powerful a graphic can be in how it conveys information -- or misinformation. 
> 
> Simple solution: noted above.
> 
> And, again, welcome the Chair's comments. Now time for a solution and continued acceptance of the organic and dynamic nature of the NRIs -- recognizing the presence is indeed one of the best outcomes of WSIS. 
> 
> Marilyn Cade
> From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com <mailto:otieno.barrack at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 1:07 AM
> To: Lynn St.Amour
> Cc: Igfregionals at intgovforum.org <mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org>; B at lucabelli.net <mailto:B at lucabelli.net>
> Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
>  
> Thanks for  the clarification Lynn,
> 
> Regards
> 
> On 4/4/19, Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org <mailto:Lynn at internet-matters.org>> wrote:
> > Dear Lorena, Luca,
> >
> > there is a serious misunderstanding here.   The MAG is NOT “recommending the
> > MAG have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the DCs”,  nor was the
> > Working Group: Multiyear Strategic Work Plan recommending this!   Nor is
> > there a discussion on the MAG re “the MAG having oversight over the NRIs”.
> >
> > The MAG and the WG-MWP fully respect the roles and the autonomy of the NRIs
> > and DCs, and I believe have been working diligently to support the NRIs and
> > DCs - all in our respective capacities and roles.
> >
> > As an aid for the community and the MAG, the WG and the Secretariat compiled
> > a table several years ago (a "Component document" that included all the
> > component pieces of the IGF ecosystem with all their reference documents
> > included).  That can be found here:
> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F6212%2F1241&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=hSbHDSaQ5%2FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX%2Bqvig%2BJTlbw%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F6212%2F1241&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=hSbHDSaQ5%2FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX%2Bqvig%2BJTlbw%3D&reserved=0>
> >   Please note: this is the reference document, not the graphic you mention
> > below.
> >
> > As the Chair of that WG last year, I will forward this note to the WG asking
> > for further comments/clarifications.   Just FYI: the WG did not request to
> > be rechartered for 2019.
> >
> > Hope this helps clear up the misunderstanding.  If not, please let us know.
> >
> >
> > We are all working towards the same objective, and a dialogue is much more
> > productive for all.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Lynn
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 3, 2019, at 6:45 PM, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com <mailto:ljaume at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear all,
> >> as we discussed in our last call, a working group within the MAG is
> >> recommending the MAG to have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the
> >> DCs. This would mean that the NRI network would not be autonomous anymore
> >> and that our collaborative with the secretariat would not be anymore.
> >> Afaik this is a decision that procedurally cannot be taken by the MAG,
> >> since they don't have the competence. So even though the MAG wants to
> >> discuss the idea of having oversight over the NRIs does not mean that they
> >> can have oversight. I am forwarding you an email (see below) from the
> >> mailinglist of the Dynamic Coalitions. Luca Belli is suggesting to send a
> >> statement to the MAG. From our last call I take that the majority in the
> >> call had a similar position. Would a joint statement make sense?
> >> Regards,
> >> Lorena
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 03.04.19, 19:13 schrieb "LB at lucabelli.net <mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>" <LB at lucabelli.net <mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>>:
> >>
> >>    Dear Eleonora and all,
> >>
> >>     Many thanks for sharing these documents.
> >>
> >>     I am baffled by the MAG's vision of the IGF "Ecosystem Overview"
> >> provided in the second document you shared
> >>     https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=khIMQenaSO%2FqMcxkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=khIMQenaSO%2FqMcxkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw%3D&reserved=0>
> >> (*Working Group presentation)
> >>
> >>     At page 1, the graphic proposed by the MAG explicitly mentions "MAG
> >> approval" i.e. MAG control over DCs and NRIs work, which of course would
> >> be a self-attribution of non-existing MAG powers concerning what can be
> >> done by DCs and NRIs.
> >>
> >>     Needless to remind that the MAG is a programme committee that has all
> >> the rights to assess that formal requirements are respected by DCs (as
> >> they are doing when they ask us to submit session request via specific
> >> forms) and NRIs but has NO right at all to approve the type or content of
> >> the work DCs and NRIs decide to do.
> >>
> >>     And, of course, needless to say that this continuous underhand
> >> attempts from the MAG to assert control over DCs and NRIs are not really
> >> the best possible strategy to restore trust between us….
> >>
> >>     I think both DCs and NRIs should carefully check these sort of sneaky
> >> attempts to control WHAT we do and STRONGLY oppose it.
> >>
> >>     I am writing in the hope we jointly agree to send a shared and robust
> >> message opposing this very peculiar MAG “overview”
> >>
> >>     Best
> >>     Luca
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>    Luca Belli, PhD
> >>    Professor of Internet Governance and Regulation, FGV Rio de Janeiro Law
> >> School
> >>    Chercheur Associé, Centre de Droit Public Comparé,
> >> Université Paris 2
> >>
> >>    https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.internet-governance.fgv.br&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=p8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.internet-governance.fgv.br&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=p8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0%3D&reserved=0>
> >>    @1lucabelli
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
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> >> that is confidential and privileged and is intended only for the use of
> >> the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> >> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution of this email
> >> or attached documents, or taking any action in reliance on the contents of
> >> this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited and may be
> >> unlawful. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [DC] IGF multi-year
> >> work programme
> >>    From: "Eleonora Mazzucchi" <eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org <mailto:eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org>>
> >>    Date: 4/3/19 9:09 am
> >>    To: "dc" <dc at intgovforum.org <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>, "Markus Kummer"
> >> <kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>, "sivasubramanian muthusamy"
> >> <6.internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.internet at gmail.com>>
> >>
> >>    Dear All,
> >>
> >>     With apologies to those who were missing one of the documents
> >> referenced by Markus last week, please find both linked below:
> >>
> >>
> >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F7662%2F1535&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX%2F9s%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F7662%2F1535&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX%2F9s%3D&reserved=0>
> >> (*strategy/discussion paper)
> >>
> >>     https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0>
> >> (*Working Group presentation)
> >>
> >>     Thank you to Sivas for pointing this out!
> >>
> >>     Best,
> >>     Eleonora
> >>
> >>
> >>     -----Original Message-----
> >>     From: Sivasubramanian M [mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com>]
> >>     Sent: Sunday, 24 March, 2019 7:18 PM
> >>     To: Markus Kummer <kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
> >>     Cc: dc <dc at intgovforum.org <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>
> >>     Subject: Re: [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> >>
> >>     Dear Markus,
> >>
> >>     You mentioned "both" documents, but the two links point to the same
> >> document.
> >>
> >>     Sivasubramanian M
> >>
> >>
> >>     On Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 4:55 PM Markus Kummer <kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> At our last call we discussed briefly the output of the WG Multi-Year
> >>> Work Programme. We did not discuss this in detail, but agreed to take
> >>> the discussion on the list and to encourage all DCs to look into this,
> >>> as we agreed it would be important to provide a DC perspective into
> >>> this more strategic discussion. During the call we share a link to the
> >>> discussion paper, copied below, but not to the WG's presentation
> >>> describing the IGF
> >>> Ecosystem:
> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0> <
> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0>>
> >>>
> >>> Please look at both documents and share your impressions on the list.
> >>>
> >>> Many thanks in advance for your feed-back Markus
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> DC mailing list
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> >>>
> >>     _______________________________________________
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> >>     _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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