[Wg-mwp] Fwd: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme

sivasubramanian muthusamy 6.internet at gmail.com
Fri Apr 5 13:38:52 EDT 2019


Dear Lynn

There are some comments and misunderstandings expressed on this list that
require the work of the MWP explained in perspective. I volunteer to write
a note that I will first share with you, and then post to the list.

Thank you.


Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
twitter.com/shivaindia


On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 10:30 PM Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org>
wrote:

> Dear WG members,
>
> would very much like to hear from WG members on the graphic and
> specifically on Marilyn’s suggestion.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Lynn
>
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > From: Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> > Date: April 5, 2019 at 8:14:05 AM EDT
> > To: Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org>
> > Cc: "Igfregionals at intgovforum.org" <igfregionals at intgovforum.org>, "
> B at lucabelli.net" <LB at lucabelli.net>, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com>
> >
> > I appreciate seeing the Chair's response.  It is welcomed.
> >
> > I especially appreciated Luca's and Lorena's earlier posts.
> >
> > I think the concern about the graphic is well placed and well founded.
> >
> > In looking at the graphic which was published by a WG chaired by the IGF
> Chair, I am disappointed that it found its way into being "reported out".
> Images have a way of conveying information that can be "misconveying".
> > This one seems to be an example. However, it "lives" on, so it continues
> to misconvey.
> >
> > I appreciate that the Chair of MAG suggests that it is not intended.
> >
> > I find myself very challenged to understand why it has not been
> withdrawn already, if it has erroneous information.  It doesn't say DRAFT,
> or to be approved. It is entitled:IGF-WG-MWP PROPOSAL: MULTI YEAR FRAMEWORK
> FOR IGF.  This label makes it look like it is approved by this WG.
> >
> > ISSUES WITH THE GRAPHIC FROM MY PERSPECTIVE RE THE NRIS:
> > It clearly shows the DCs and NRIs being "approved" by the MAG approval
> process at second meeting.
> > As it presently stands, it seems to convey an approval process by the
> MAG.
> > The "shadow" circle also identifies the need for a process for
> allocation of DC and NRI sessions.
> >
> > It seems to me,  if the MAG and Chair want to show full recognition of
> the organic nature of the DCs and NRIs. a better choice of language is
> needed. ... something more like "collaborative efforts with DCs and NRIs".
> >
> > Rather than MAG approval process.. showing the NRIs and DCs being
> reviewed by the MAG.
> >
> > So,I have a concrete suggestion.  Let's fix this.  The WG and MAG Chair
> can simply withdraw the graphic. Formally. The link should not continue to
> have a document that is according to the Chair, not the formal perspective.
> It needs to say: withdrawn/not approved, or something of that nature so
> that it is not continuing to be available as what seems to be an approved
> recommendation from a WG chaired by the MAG chair.
> >
> > I do not speak for any others, but I do understand clearly how powerful
> a graphic can be in how it conveys information -- or misinformation.
> >
> > Simple solution: noted above.
> >
> > And, again, welcome the Chair's comments. Now time for a solution and
> continued acceptance of the organic and dynamic nature of the NRIs --
> recognizing the presence is indeed one of the best outcomes of WSIS.
> >
> > Marilyn Cade
> > From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com <mailto:
> otieno.barrack at gmail.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 1:07 AM
> > To: Lynn St.Amour
> > Cc: Igfregionals at intgovforum.org <mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org>;
> B at lucabelli.net <mailto:B at lucabelli.net>
> > Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> >
> > Thanks for  the clarification Lynn,
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > On 4/4/19, Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org <mailto:
> Lynn at internet-matters.org>> wrote:
> > > Dear Lorena, Luca,
> > >
> > > there is a serious misunderstanding here.   The MAG is NOT
> “recommending the
> > > MAG have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the DCs”,  nor was the
> > > Working Group: Multiyear Strategic Work Plan recommending this!   Nor
> is
> > > there a discussion on the MAG re “the MAG having oversight over the
> NRIs”.
> > >
> > > The MAG and the WG-MWP fully respect the roles and the autonomy of the
> NRIs
> > > and DCs, and I believe have been working diligently to support the
> NRIs and
> > > DCs - all in our respective capacities and roles.
> > >
> > > As an aid for the community and the MAG, the WG and the Secretariat
> compiled
> > > a table several years ago (a "Component document" that included all the
> > > component pieces of the IGF ecosystem with all their reference
> documents
> > > included).  That can be found here:
> > >
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F6212%2F1241&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=hSbHDSaQ5%2FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX%2Bqvig%2BJTlbw%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F6212%2F1241&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=hSbHDSaQ5%2FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX%2Bqvig%2BJTlbw%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >   Please note: this is the reference document, not the graphic you
> mention
> > > below.
> > >
> > > As the Chair of that WG last year, I will forward this note to the WG
> asking
> > > for further comments/clarifications.   Just FYI: the WG did not
> request to
> > > be rechartered for 2019.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps clear up the misunderstanding.  If not, please let us
> know.
> > >
> > >
> > > We are all working towards the same objective, and a dialogue is much
> more
> > > productive for all.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Lynn
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Apr 3, 2019, at 6:45 PM, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com <mailto:
> ljaume at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Dear all,
> > >> as we discussed in our last call, a working group within the MAG is
> > >> recommending the MAG to have oversight over the work of the NRIs and
> the
> > >> DCs. This would mean that the NRI network would not be autonomous
> anymore
> > >> and that our collaborative with the secretariat would not be anymore.
> > >> Afaik this is a decision that procedurally cannot be taken by the MAG,
> > >> since they don't have the competence. So even though the MAG wants to
> > >> discuss the idea of having oversight over the NRIs does not mean that
> they
> > >> can have oversight. I am forwarding you an email (see below) from the
> > >> mailinglist of the Dynamic Coalitions. Luca Belli is suggesting to
> send a
> > >> statement to the MAG. From our last call I take that the majority in
> the
> > >> call had a similar position. Would a joint statement make sense?
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Lorena
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Am 03.04.19, 19:13 schrieb "LB at lucabelli.net <mailto:
> LB at lucabelli.net>" <LB at lucabelli.net <mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>>:
> > >>
> > >>    Dear Eleonora and all,
> > >>
> > >>     Many thanks for sharing these documents.
> > >>
> > >>     I am baffled by the MAG's vision of the IGF "Ecosystem Overview"
> > >> provided in the second document you shared
> > >>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=khIMQenaSO%2FqMcxkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=khIMQenaSO%2FqMcxkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >> (*Working Group presentation)
> > >>
> > >>     At page 1, the graphic proposed by the MAG explicitly mentions
> "MAG
> > >> approval" i.e. MAG control over DCs and NRIs work, which of course
> would
> > >> be a self-attribution of non-existing MAG powers concerning what can
> be
> > >> done by DCs and NRIs.
> > >>
> > >>     Needless to remind that the MAG is a programme committee that has
> all
> > >> the rights to assess that formal requirements are respected by DCs (as
> > >> they are doing when they ask us to submit session request via specific
> > >> forms) and NRIs but has NO right at all to approve the type or
> content of
> > >> the work DCs and NRIs decide to do.
> > >>
> > >>     And, of course, needless to say that this continuous underhand
> > >> attempts from the MAG to assert control over DCs and NRIs are not
> really
> > >> the best possible strategy to restore trust between us….
> > >>
> > >>     I think both DCs and NRIs should carefully check these sort of
> sneaky
> > >> attempts to control WHAT we do and STRONGLY oppose it.
> > >>
> > >>     I am writing in the hope we jointly agree to send a shared and
> robust
> > >> message opposing this very peculiar MAG “overview”
> > >>
> > >>     Best
> > >>     Luca
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>    Luca Belli, PhD
> > >>    Professor of Internet Governance and Regulation, FGV Rio de
> Janeiro Law
> > >> School
> > >>    Chercheur Associé, Centre de Droit Public Comparé,
> > >> Université Paris 2
> > >>
> > >>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.internet-governance.fgv.br&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=p8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0%3D&reserved=0
> <
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> >
> > >>    @1lucabelli
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
> > >>    This message, as well as any attached document, may contain
> information
> > >> that is confidential and privileged and is intended only for the use
> of
> > >> the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you
> are
> > >> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution of this
> email
> > >> or attached documents, or taking any action in reliance on the
> contents of
> > >> this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited and may be
> > >> unlawful. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received
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> > >> email by mistake.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>    --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [DC] IGF
> multi-year
> > >> work programme
> > >>    From: "Eleonora Mazzucchi" <eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org <mailto:
> eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org>>
> > >>    Date: 4/3/19 9:09 am
> > >>    To: "dc" <dc at intgovforum.org <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>,
> "Markus Kummer"
> > >> <kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>,
> "sivasubramanian muthusamy"
> > >> <6.internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.internet at gmail.com>>
> > >>
> > >>    Dear All,
> > >>
> > >>     With apologies to those who were missing one of the documents
> > >> referenced by Markus last week, please find both linked below:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F7662%2F1535&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX%2F9s%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F7662%2F1535&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX%2F9s%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >> (*strategy/discussion paper)
> > >>
> > >>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >> (*Working Group presentation)
> > >>
> > >>     Thank you to Sivas for pointing this out!
> > >>
> > >>     Best,
> > >>     Eleonora
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>     -----Original Message-----
> > >>     From: Sivasubramanian M [mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com <mailto:
> 6.Internet at gmail.com>]
> > >>     Sent: Sunday, 24 March, 2019 7:18 PM
> > >>     To: Markus Kummer <kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:
> kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
> > >>     Cc: dc <dc at intgovforum.org <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>
> > >>     Subject: Re: [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> > >>
> > >>     Dear Markus,
> > >>
> > >>     You mentioned "both" documents, but the two links point to the
> same
> > >> document.
> > >>
> > >>     Sivasubramanian M
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>     On Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 4:55 PM Markus Kummer <
> kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Dear all,
> > >>>
> > >>> At our last call we discussed briefly the output of the WG Multi-Year
> > >>> Work Programme. We did not discuss this in detail, but agreed to take
> > >>> the discussion on the list and to encourage all DCs to look into
> this,
> > >>> as we agreed it would be important to provide a DC perspective into
> > >>> this more strategic discussion. During the call we share a link to
> the
> > >>> discussion paper, copied below, but not to the WG's presentation
> > >>> describing the IGF
> > >>> Ecosystem:
> > >>>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0>
> <
> > >>>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Please look at both documents and share your impressions on the list.
> > >>>
> > >>> Many thanks in advance for your feed-back Markus
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> DC mailing list
> > >>> DC at intgovforum.org <mailto:DC at intgovforum.org>
> > >>> To unsubscribe or manage your options please go to
> > >>>
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> >
> > >>>
> > >>     _______________________________________________
> > >>     DC mailing list
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> > >>     To unsubscribe or manage your options please go to
> > >>
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> >
> > >>     _______________________________________________
> > >>     DC mailing list
> > >>     DC at intgovforum.org <mailto:DC at intgovforum.org>
> > >>     To unsubscribe or manage your options please go to
> > >>
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> >
> > >>    _______________________________________________
> > >>    DC mailing list
> > >>    DC at intgovforum.org <mailto:DC at intgovforum.org>
> > >>    To unsubscribe or manage your options please go to
> > >>
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> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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