[Wg-mwp] [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme

Lynn St.Amour Lynn at Internet-Matters.org
Sat Apr 6 12:27:58 EDT 2019


Dear Jutta, all,

*IF* we need a meeting, we should schedule a virtual meeting so that those not physically present in Geneva can participate. 

Having said that, I am not sure a meeting in the background of WSIS and the MAG meeting will be possible given all the extra meeting requests we all already have.   

It would be helpful to hear from other WG members as well.   The questions are quite clear, and one additional comment I heard was that this graphic differs from the Prezi presentation, so the WG could begin looking into that.

Best,
Lynn

> On Apr 6, 2019, at 7:02 AM, Jutta Croll <jcroll at digitale-chancen.de> wrote:
> 
> Dear Lynn, dear colleagues,
> 
> from my perspective this is an issue to complex to discuss via the list. Therefore I suggest to meet during our f2f meeting next week in Geneva and try to clarify how such a misinterpretation of the graphic could have evolved and how it could be solved, if need be.
> 
> Kind regards
> Jutta
> 
> 
> **********************************
> Jutta Croll M. A.
> Stiftung Digitale Chancen
> - Projektleitung Kinderschutz und Kinderrechte in der digitalen Welt -
> - Vorsitzende des Vorstands / Chairwoman of the board -
> Chausseestr. 15
> D-10115 Berlin
> Germany
> 
> Skype: jcrollSDC
> 
> Tel.: ++ 49(0)30-43727730
> Mobil: ++ 49(0)163-5493-773
> E-Mail: jcroll at digitale-chancen.de<mailto:jcroll at digitale-chancen.de>
> URL: www.digitale-chancen.de
> 
> English Version:
> http://www.digitale-chancen.de/index.cfm/lang.2
> **********************************
> 
> 
> Am 05.04.2019 um 19:00 schrieb Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at Internet-Matters.org<mailto:Lynn at Internet-Matters.org>>:
> 
> Dear WG members,
> 
> would very much like to hear from WG members on the graphic and specifically on Marilyn’s suggestion.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Lynn
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com<mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> Date: April 5, 2019 at 8:14:05 AM EDT
> To: Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org<mailto:Lynn at internet-matters.org>>
> Cc: "Igfregionals at intgovforum.org<mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org>" <igfregionals at intgovforum.org<mailto:igfregionals at intgovforum.org>>, "B at lucabelli.net<mailto:B at lucabelli.net>" <LB at lucabelli.net<mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>>, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com<mailto:ljaume at hotmail.com>>
> 
> I appreciate seeing the Chair's response.  It is welcomed.
> 
> I especially appreciated Luca's and Lorena's earlier posts.
> 
> I think the concern about the graphic is well placed and well founded.
> 
> In looking at the graphic which was published by a WG chaired by the IGF Chair, I am disappointed that it found its way into being "reported out".  Images have a way of conveying information that can be "misconveying".
> This one seems to be an example. However, it "lives" on, so it continues to misconvey.
> 
> I appreciate that the Chair of MAG suggests that it is not intended.
> 
> I find myself very challenged to understand why it has not been withdrawn already, if it has erroneous information.  It doesn't say DRAFT, or to be approved. It is entitled:IGF-WG-MWP PROPOSAL: MULTI YEAR FRAMEWORK FOR IGF.  This label makes it look like it is approved by this WG.
> 
> ISSUES WITH THE GRAPHIC FROM MY PERSPECTIVE RE THE NRIS:
> It clearly shows the DCs and NRIs being "approved" by the MAG approval process at second meeting.
> As it presently stands, it seems to convey an approval process by the MAG.
> The "shadow" circle also identifies the need for a process for allocation of DC and NRI sessions.
> 
> It seems to me,  if the MAG and Chair want to show full recognition of the organic nature of the DCs and NRIs. a better choice of language is needed. ... something more like "collaborative efforts with DCs and NRIs".
> 
> Rather than MAG approval process.. showing the NRIs and DCs being reviewed by the MAG.
> 
> So,I have a concrete suggestion.  Let's fix this.  The WG and MAG Chair can simply withdraw the graphic. Formally. The link should not continue to have a document that is according to the Chair, not the formal perspective. It needs to say: withdrawn/not approved, or something of that nature so that it is not continuing to be available as what seems to be an approved recommendation from a WG chaired by the MAG chair.
> 
> I do not speak for any others, but I do understand clearly how powerful a graphic can be in how it conveys information -- or misinformation.
> 
> Simple solution: noted above.
> 
> And, again, welcome the Chair's comments. Now time for a solution and continued acceptance of the organic and dynamic nature of the NRIs -- recognizing the presence is indeed one of the best outcomes of WSIS.
> 
> Marilyn Cade
> From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack at gmail.com> <mailto:otieno.barrack at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 1:07 AM
> To: Lynn St.Amour
> Cc: Igfregionals at intgovforum.org<mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org> <mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org>; B at lucabelli.net<mailto:B at lucabelli.net> <mailto:B at lucabelli.net>
> Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> 
> Thanks for  the clarification Lynn,
> 
> Regards
> 
> On 4/4/19, Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org<mailto:Lynn at internet-matters.org> <mailto:Lynn at internet-matters.org>> wrote:
> Dear Lorena, Luca,
> 
> there is a serious misunderstanding here.   The MAG is NOT “recommending the
> MAG have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the DCs”,  nor was the
> Working Group: Multiyear Strategic Work Plan recommending this!   Nor is
> there a discussion on the MAG re “the MAG having oversight over the NRIs”.
> 
> The MAG and the WG-MWP fully respect the roles and the autonomy of the NRIs
> and DCs, and I believe have been working diligently to support the NRIs and
> DCs - all in our respective capacities and roles.
> 
> As an aid for the community and the MAG, the WG and the Secretariat compiled
> a table several years ago (a "Component document" that included all the
> component pieces of the IGF ecosystem with all their reference documents
> included).  That can be found here:
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F6212%2F1241&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=hSbHDSaQ5%2FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX%2Bqvig%2BJTlbw%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F6212%2F1241&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=hSbHDSaQ5%2FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX%2Bqvig%2BJTlbw%3D&reserved=0>
> Please note: this is the reference document, not the graphic you mention
> below.
> 
> As the Chair of that WG last year, I will forward this note to the WG asking
> for further comments/clarifications.   Just FYI: the WG did not request to
> be rechartered for 2019.
> 
> Hope this helps clear up the misunderstanding.  If not, please let us know.
> 
> 
> We are all working towards the same objective, and a dialogue is much more
> productive for all.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn
> 
> 
> On Apr 3, 2019, at 6:45 PM, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com<mailto:ljaume at hotmail.com> <mailto:ljaume at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> as we discussed in our last call, a working group within the MAG is
> recommending the MAG to have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the
> DCs. This would mean that the NRI network would not be autonomous anymore
> and that our collaborative with the secretariat would not be anymore.
> Afaik this is a decision that procedurally cannot be taken by the MAG,
> since they don't have the competence. So even though the MAG wants to
> discuss the idea of having oversight over the NRIs does not mean that they
> can have oversight. I am forwarding you an email (see below) from the
> mailinglist of the Dynamic Coalitions. Luca Belli is suggesting to send a
> statement to the MAG. From our last call I take that the majority in the
> call had a similar position. Would a joint statement make sense?
> Regards,
> Lorena
> 
> 
> Am 03.04.19, 19:13 schrieb "LB at lucabelli.net<mailto:LB at lucabelli.net> <mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>" <LB at lucabelli.net<mailto:LB at lucabelli.net> <mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>>:
> 
>  Dear Eleonora and all,
> 
>   Many thanks for sharing these documents.
> 
>   I am baffled by the MAG's vision of the IGF "Ecosystem Overview"
> provided in the second document you shared
>   https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=khIMQenaSO%2FqMcxkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=khIMQenaSO%2FqMcxkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw%3D&reserved=0>
> (*Working Group presentation)
> 
>   At page 1, the graphic proposed by the MAG explicitly mentions "MAG
> approval" i.e. MAG control over DCs and NRIs work, which of course would
> be a self-attribution of non-existing MAG powers concerning what can be
> done by DCs and NRIs.
> 
>   Needless to remind that the MAG is a programme committee that has all
> the rights to assess that formal requirements are respected by DCs (as
> they are doing when they ask us to submit session request via specific
> forms) and NRIs but has NO right at all to approve the type or content of
> the work DCs and NRIs decide to do.
> 
>   And, of course, needless to say that this continuous underhand
> attempts from the MAG to assert control over DCs and NRIs are not really
> the best possible strategy to restore trust between us….
> 
>   I think both DCs and NRIs should carefully check these sort of sneaky
> attempts to control WHAT we do and STRONGLY oppose it.
> 
>   I am writing in the hope we jointly agree to send a shared and robust
> message opposing this very peculiar MAG “overview”
> 
>   Best
>   Luca
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Luca Belli, PhD
>  Professor of Internet Governance and Regulation, FGV Rio de Janeiro Law
> School
>  Chercheur Associé, Centre de Droit Public Comparé,
> Université Paris 2
> 
>  https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.internet-governance.fgv.br&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=p8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.internet-governance.fgv.br&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=p8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0%3D&reserved=0>
>  @1lucabelli
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
>  --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [DC] IGF multi-year
> work programme
>  From: "Eleonora Mazzucchi" <eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org<mailto:eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org> <mailto:eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org>>
>  Date: 4/3/19 9:09 am
>  To: "dc" <dc at intgovforum.org<mailto:dc at intgovforum.org> <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>, "Markus Kummer"
> <kummer.markus at gmail.com<mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com> <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>, "sivasubramanian muthusamy"
> <6.internet at gmail.com<mailto:6.internet at gmail.com> <mailto:6.internet at gmail.com>>
> 
>  Dear All,
> 
>   With apologies to those who were missing one of the documents
> referenced by Markus last week, please find both linked below:
> 
> 
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F7662%2F1535&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX%2F9s%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F7662%2F1535&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX%2F9s%3D&reserved=0>
> (*strategy/discussion paper)
> 
>   https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0>
> (*Working Group presentation)
> 
>   Thank you to Sivas for pointing this out!
> 
>   Best,
>   Eleonora
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Sivasubramanian M [mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com>]
>   Sent: Sunday, 24 March, 2019 7:18 PM
>   To: Markus Kummer <kummer.markus at gmail.com<mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com> <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
>   Cc: dc <dc at intgovforum.org<mailto:dc at intgovforum.org> <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>
>   Subject: Re: [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> 
>   Dear Markus,
> 
>   You mentioned "both" documents, but the two links point to the same
> document.
> 
>   Sivasubramanian M
> 
> 
>   On Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 4:55 PM Markus Kummer <kummer.markus at gmail.com<mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com> <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> At our last call we discussed briefly the output of the WG Multi-Year
> Work Programme. We did not discuss this in detail, but agreed to take
> the discussion on the list and to encourage all DCs to look into this,
> as we agreed it would be important to provide a DC perspective into
> this more strategic discussion. During the call we share a link to the
> discussion paper, copied below, but not to the WG's presentation
> describing the IGF
> Ecosystem:
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31hG%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0>>
> 
> Please look at both documents and share your impressions on the list.
> 
> Many thanks in advance for your feed-back Markus
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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