[Wg-mwp] [Ext] Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme

Nigel Hickson nigel.hickson at icann.org
Sat Apr 6 13:13:11 EDT 2019


Good afternoon 

I would support a discussion to resolve this issue as there does seems to be misunderstandings combined with good will; which is all important. 

Best

Nigel 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Apr 2019, at 12:03, Jutta Croll <jcroll at digitale-chancen.de> wrote:
> 
> Dear Lynn, dear colleagues,
> 
> from my perspective this is an issue to complex to discuss via the list. Therefore I suggest to meet during our f2f meeting next week in Geneva and try to clarify how such a misinterpretation of the graphic could have evolved and how it could be solved, if need be.
> 
> Kind regards
> Jutta
> 
> 
> **********************************
> Jutta Croll M. A.
> Stiftung Digitale Chancen
> - Projektleitung Kinderschutz und Kinderrechte in der digitalen Welt -
> - Vorsitzende des Vorstands / Chairwoman of the board -
> Chausseestr. 15
> D-10115 Berlin
> Germany
> 
> Skype: jcrollSDC
> 
> Tel.: ++ 49(0)30-43727730
> Mobil: ++ 49(0)163-5493-773
> E-Mail: jcroll at digitale-chancen.de<mailto:jcroll at digitale-chancen.de>
> URL: www.digitale-chancen.de
> 
> English Version:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitale-2Dchancen.de_index.cfm_lang.2&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=mEZVT9rsC4wpKxSBOjtEWXzVIOP5B0LRqW-7dxi0ct4&e=
> **********************************
> 
> 
> Am 05.04.2019 um 19:00 schrieb Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at Internet-Matters.org<mailto:Lynn at Internet-Matters.org>>:
> 
> Dear WG members,
> 
> would very much like to hear from WG members on the graphic and specifically on Marilyn’s suggestion.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Lynn
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com<mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> Date: April 5, 2019 at 8:14:05 AM EDT
> To: Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org<mailto:Lynn at internet-matters.org>>
> Cc: "Igfregionals at intgovforum.org<mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org>" <igfregionals at intgovforum.org<mailto:igfregionals at intgovforum.org>>, "B at lucabelli.net<mailto:B at lucabelli.net>" <LB at lucabelli.net<mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>>, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com<mailto:ljaume at hotmail.com>>
> 
> I appreciate seeing the Chair's response.  It is welcomed.
> 
> I especially appreciated Luca's and Lorena's earlier posts.
> 
> I think the concern about the graphic is well placed and well founded.
> 
> In looking at the graphic which was published by a WG chaired by the IGF Chair, I am disappointed that it found its way into being "reported out".  Images have a way of conveying information that can be "misconveying".
> This one seems to be an example. However, it "lives" on, so it continues to misconvey.
> 
> I appreciate that the Chair of MAG suggests that it is not intended.
> 
> I find myself very challenged to understand why it has not been withdrawn already, if it has erroneous information.  It doesn't say DRAFT, or to be approved. It is entitled:IGF-WG-MWP PROPOSAL: MULTI YEAR FRAMEWORK FOR IGF.  This label makes it look like it is approved by this WG.
> 
> ISSUES WITH THE GRAPHIC FROM MY PERSPECTIVE RE THE NRIS:
> It clearly shows the DCs and NRIs being "approved" by the MAG approval process at second meeting.
> As it presently stands, it seems to convey an approval process by the MAG.
> The "shadow" circle also identifies the need for a process for allocation of DC and NRI sessions.
> 
> It seems to me,  if the MAG and Chair want to show full recognition of the organic nature of the DCs and NRIs. a better choice of language is needed. ... something more like "collaborative efforts with DCs and NRIs".
> 
> Rather than MAG approval process.. showing the NRIs and DCs being reviewed by the MAG.
> 
> So,I have a concrete suggestion.  Let's fix this.  The WG and MAG Chair can simply withdraw the graphic. Formally. The link should not continue to have a document that is according to the Chair, not the formal perspective. It needs to say: withdrawn/not approved, or something of that nature so that it is not continuing to be available as what seems to be an approved recommendation from a WG chaired by the MAG chair.
> 
> I do not speak for any others, but I do understand clearly how powerful a graphic can be in how it conveys information -- or misinformation.
> 
> Simple solution: noted above.
> 
> And, again, welcome the Chair's comments. Now time for a solution and continued acceptance of the organic and dynamic nature of the NRIs -- recognizing the presence is indeed one of the best outcomes of WSIS.
> 
> Marilyn Cade
> From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com<mailto:otieno.barrack at gmail.com> <mailto:otieno.barrack at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 1:07 AM
> To: Lynn St.Amour
> Cc: Igfregionals at intgovforum.org<mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org> <mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org>; B at lucabelli.net<mailto:B at lucabelli.net> <mailto:B at lucabelli.net>
> Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> 
> Thanks for  the clarification Lynn,
> 
> Regards
> 
> On 4/4/19, Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org<mailto:Lynn at internet-matters.org> <mailto:Lynn at internet-matters.org>> wrote:
> Dear Lorena, Luca,
> 
> there is a serious misunderstanding here.   The MAG is NOT “recommending the
> MAG have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the DCs”,  nor was the
> Working Group: Multiyear Strategic Work Plan recommending this!   Nor is
> there a discussion on the MAG re “the MAG having oversight over the NRIs”.
> 
> The MAG and the WG-MWP fully respect the roles and the autonomy of the NRIs
> and DCs, and I believe have been working diligently to support the NRIs and
> DCs - all in our respective capacities and roles.
> 
> As an aid for the community and the MAG, the WG and the Secretariat compiled
> a table several years ago (a "Component document" that included all the
> component pieces of the IGF ecosystem with all their reference documents
> included).  That can be found here:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.intgovforum.org-252Fmultilingual-252Findex.php-253Fq-253Dfiledepot-5Fdownload-252F6212-252F1241-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904293881-26amp-3Bsdata-3DhSbHDSaQ5-252FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX-252Bqvig-252BJTlbw-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=cHt8qRPiRUaIM7-Re7hNeibATHktMoKkhBb2Kd7pij4&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.intgovforum.org-252Fmultilingual-252Findex.php-253Fq-253Dfiledepot-5Fdownload-252F6212-252F1241-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904293881-26amp-3Bsdata-3DhSbHDSaQ5-252FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX-252Bqvig-252BJTlbw-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=cHt8qRPiRUaIM7-Re7hNeibATHktMoKkhBb2Kd7pij4&e=>
> Please note: this is the reference document, not the graphic you mention
> below.
> 
> As the Chair of that WG last year, I will forward this note to the WG asking
> for further comments/clarifications.   Just FYI: the WG did not request to
> be rechartered for 2019.
> 
> Hope this helps clear up the misunderstanding.  If not, please let us know.
> 
> 
> We are all working towards the same objective, and a dialogue is much more
> productive for all.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn
> 
> 
> On Apr 3, 2019, at 6:45 PM, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com<mailto:ljaume at hotmail.com> <mailto:ljaume at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> as we discussed in our last call, a working group within the MAG is
> recommending the MAG to have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the
> DCs. This would mean that the NRI network would not be autonomous anymore
> and that our collaborative with the secretariat would not be anymore.
> Afaik this is a decision that procedurally cannot be taken by the MAG,
> since they don't have the competence. So even though the MAG wants to
> discuss the idea of having oversight over the NRIs does not mean that they
> can have oversight. I am forwarding you an email (see below) from the
> mailinglist of the Dynamic Coalitions. Luca Belli is suggesting to send a
> statement to the MAG. From our last call I take that the majority in the
> call had a similar position. Would a joint statement make sense?
> Regards,
> Lorena
> 
> 
> Am 03.04.19, 19:13 schrieb "LB at lucabelli.net<mailto:LB at lucabelli.net> <mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>" <LB at lucabelli.net<mailto:LB at lucabelli.net> <mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>>:
> 
>  Dear Eleonora and all,
> 
>   Many thanks for sharing these documents.
> 
>   I am baffled by the MAG's vision of the IGF "Ecosystem Overview"
> provided in the second document you shared
>   https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.intgovforum.org-252Fmultilingual-252Ffiledepot-5Fdownload-252F5075-252F1259-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904293881-26amp-3Bsdata-3DkhIMQenaSO-252FqMcxkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=w4wUW2nwnyQocHe_HwjqB6sRFijbgPeq9djVTjIcTI0&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.intgovforum.org-252Fmultilingual-252Ffiledepot-5Fdownload-252F5075-252F1259-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904293881-26amp-3Bsdata-3DkhIMQenaSO-252FqMcxkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=w4wUW2nwnyQocHe_HwjqB6sRFijbgPeq9djVTjIcTI0&e=>
> (*Working Group presentation)
> 
>   At page 1, the graphic proposed by the MAG explicitly mentions "MAG
> approval" i.e. MAG control over DCs and NRIs work, which of course would
> be a self-attribution of non-existing MAG powers concerning what can be
> done by DCs and NRIs.
> 
>   Needless to remind that the MAG is a programme committee that has all
> the rights to assess that formal requirements are respected by DCs (as
> they are doing when they ask us to submit session request via specific
> forms) and NRIs but has NO right at all to approve the type or content of
> the work DCs and NRIs decide to do.
> 
>   And, of course, needless to say that this continuous underhand
> attempts from the MAG to assert control over DCs and NRIs are not really
> the best possible strategy to restore trust between us….
> 
>   I think both DCs and NRIs should carefully check these sort of sneaky
> attempts to control WHAT we do and STRONGLY oppose it.
> 
>   I am writing in the hope we jointly agree to send a shared and robust
> message opposing this very peculiar MAG “overview”
> 
>   Best
>   Luca
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Luca Belli, PhD
>  Professor of Internet Governance and Regulation, FGV Rio de Janeiro Law
> School
>  Chercheur Associé, Centre de Droit Public Comparé,
> Université Paris 2
> 
>  https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dwww.internet-2Dgovernance.fgv.br-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904293881-26amp-3Bsdata-3Dp8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=RgJbcqKmlL-BsB99VCFoO4Ih87WH40BoASnhGfoOHfU&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dwww.internet-2Dgovernance.fgv.br-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904293881-26amp-3Bsdata-3Dp8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=RgJbcqKmlL-BsB99VCFoO4Ih87WH40BoASnhGfoOHfU&e=>
>  @1lucabelli
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
>  --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [DC] IGF multi-year
> work programme
>  From: "Eleonora Mazzucchi" <eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org<mailto:eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org> <mailto:eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org>>
>  Date: 4/3/19 9:09 am
>  To: "dc" <dc at intgovforum.org<mailto:dc at intgovforum.org> <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>, "Markus Kummer"
> <kummer.markus at gmail.com<mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com> <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>, "sivasubramanian muthusamy"
> <6.internet at gmail.com<mailto:6.internet at gmail.com> <mailto:6.internet at gmail.com>>
> 
>  Dear All,
> 
>   With apologies to those who were missing one of the documents
> referenced by Markus last week, please find both linked below:
> 
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.intgovforum.org-252Fmultilingual-252Findex.php-253Fq-253Dfiledepot-5Fdownload-252F7662-252F1535-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904303886-26amp-3Bsdata-3D2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX-252F9s-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=KqtjKYoT81e8ty3SHD7cXPnQYBEgS6RIHWPJ59XMGGs&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.intgovforum.org-252Fmultilingual-252Findex.php-253Fq-253Dfiledepot-5Fdownload-252F7662-252F1535-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904303886-26amp-3Bsdata-3D2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX-252F9s-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=KqtjKYoT81e8ty3SHD7cXPnQYBEgS6RIHWPJ59XMGGs&e=>
> (*strategy/discussion paper)
> 
>   https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.intgovforum.org-252Fmultilingual-252Ffiledepot-5Fdownload-252F5075-252F1259-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904303886-26amp-3Bsdata-3DpOWE0md-252FA6W31hG-252Bt5-252BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=35hFD0KstLODtLC0fDhgdwr9lgOM1v8PbbcrwVpplG8&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.intgovforum.org-252Fmultilingual-252Ffiledepot-5Fdownload-252F5075-252F1259-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C01-257C-257C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa-257C1-257C0-257C636900376904303886-26amp-3Bsdata-3DpOWE0md-252FA6W31hG-252Bt5-252BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg-253D-26amp-3Breserved-3D0&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=fTyv6iwJIfZ5We8J9rUEpnvdtACPhs8X9THY9RkTHTg&s=35hFD0KstLODtLC0fDhgdwr9lgOM1v8PbbcrwVpplG8&e=>
> (*Working Group presentation)
> 
>   Thank you to Sivas for pointing this out!
> 
>   Best,
>   Eleonora
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Sivasubramanian M [mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com>]
>   Sent: Sunday, 24 March, 2019 7:18 PM
>   To: Markus Kummer <kummer.markus at gmail.com<mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com> <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
>   Cc: dc <dc at intgovforum.org<mailto:dc at intgovforum.org> <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>
>   Subject: Re: [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> 
>   Dear Markus,
> 
>   You mentioned "both" documents, but the two links point to the same
> document.
> 
>   Sivasubramanian M
> 
> 
>   On Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 4:55 PM Markus Kummer <kummer.markus at gmail.com<mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com> <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> At our last call we discussed briefly the output of the WG Multi-Year
> Work Programme. We did not discuss this in detail, but agreed to take
> the discussion on the list and to encourage all DCs to look into this,
> as we agreed it would be important to provide a DC perspective into
> this more strategic discussion. During the call we share a link to the
> discussion paper, copied below, but not to the WG's presentation
> describing the IGF
> Ecosystem:
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> 
> Please look at both documents and share your impressions on the list.
> 
> Many thanks in advance for your feed-back Markus
> 
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