[Wg-mwp] R: Fwd: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme

Wout de Natris denatrisconsult at hotmail.nl
Mon Apr 8 03:37:46 EDT 2019


Dear all,

As a member of the MWP WG I fully agree with Titti. We never discussed anything like this at any time and was surprised by this confusion.

Best,

Wout


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________________________________
From: CASSA Concettina <cassa at agid.gov.it>
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2019 9:31 AM
To: marilynscade at hotmail.com
Cc: wg-mwp
Subject: [Wg-mwp] R: Fwd: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme

Dear Marilyn,
Dear All,
I have been a participant of the Multi year work program and I'm MAG member.
I can confirm that the MAG has never recommended the MAG to have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the DCs,  nor was the Working Group: Multiyear Strategic Work Plan recommending this.
I hope this could help to clarify the misunderstanding.
Best,
Titti


---------------------------------

Concettina Cassa
Responsabile di servizio
Area Innovazione della PA
Servizio Internet Governance
Via Liszt, 21 - 00144 Roma
e-mail: cassa at agid.gov.it
Tel. 06.85264442
Mobile 3280414079/3924465037
www.agid.gov.it<http://www.agid.gov.it>

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet at gmail.com>
Inviato: venerdì 5 aprile 2019 21:30
A: Lynn at internet-matters.org; marilynscade at hotmail.com
Cc: wg-mwp <wg-mwp at intgovforum.org>
Oggetto: Re: [Wg-mwp] Fwd: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme

Dear Marilyn Cade,


I have been a participant of the Multi year work program, though I was not a MAG member, and I wish to assure you that none of its deliberations nor any of its proposals from this working working group, expressly or subtly, intended or conveyed any idea of interfering in the status quo of the role and position of the DCs and NRIs.  On the contrary, the Working Group sought to engage the DCs and NRIs in the work of the Multi-year work program and integrate them more in the IGF.

The MWP initially thought it appropriate to plan for a timespan of 2-3 years, but some suggestions that a longer time horizon for the IGF could be kept in perspective while focusing on a 3 year time span for the multi-year work plan. In this context the Working Group  " recognized the importance of engaging broadly across the full MAG, the IGF community, BPFs, DCs, CENB, and NRIs, in the development of a multi-year strategic work programme. These engagements are of primary importance given the global interconnected nature of international Internet public policy issues, and in full recognition of the work and expertise that exists across the IGF ecosystem."

The work of the DCs and NRIs were discussed in this context as reflected in the additional goals for the MWP: Points iv, v, and vi below, all with the overall vision on Point vii below.

 i) Increased participation from senior policy makers ii) Increased participation from senior private sector actors iii) More balanced stakeholder participation iv) Increase collaboration between the NRIs and the global IGF v) Support NRI efforts to increase collaboration among NRIs
vi) Increase collaboration among DCs, and between the DCs and the global IGF vii) Work to raise the overall stature of the IGF

MWP, without any opposition from any of the WG members, thought that highly role of the DCs and NRIs and looked for further progress by DCs and NRIs.
This is what that requires to have caught everyone's attention and support.

The only "approval" that was discussed during the deliberations of this working group pertained to MAG approval for continuity of the working group, and NOT in manner manner on inventing approval processes that would interfere in the status quo of DCs and NRIs.

I hope this clears all misunderstandings


On Fri, Apr 5, 2019, 10:30 PM Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org>
wrote:

> Dear WG members,
>
> would very much like to hear from WG members on the graphic and
> specifically on Marilyn’s suggestion.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Lynn
>
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > From: Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> > Date: April 5, 2019 at 8:14:05 AM EDT
> > To: Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org>
> > Cc: "Igfregionals at intgovforum.org" <igfregionals at intgovforum.org>, "
> B at lucabelli.net" <LB at lucabelli.net>, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com>
> >
> > I appreciate seeing the Chair's response.  It is welcomed.
> >
> > I especially appreciated Luca's and Lorena's earlier posts.
> >
> > I think the concern about the graphic is well placed and well founded.
> >
> > In looking at the graphic which was published by a WG chaired by the
> > IGF
> Chair, I am disappointed that it found its way into being "reported out".
> Images have a way of conveying information that can be "misconveying".
> > This one seems to be an example. However, it "lives" on, so it
> > continues
> to misconvey.
> >
> > I appreciate that the Chair of MAG suggests that it is not intended.
> >
> > I find myself very challenged to understand why it has not been
> withdrawn already, if it has erroneous information.  It doesn't say
> DRAFT, or to be approved. It is entitled:IGF-WG-MWP PROPOSAL: MULTI
> YEAR FRAMEWORK FOR IGF.  This label makes it look like it is approved by this WG.
> >
> > ISSUES WITH THE GRAPHIC FROM MY PERSPECTIVE RE THE NRIS:
> > It clearly shows the DCs and NRIs being "approved" by the MAG
> > approval
> process at second meeting.
> > As it presently stands, it seems to convey an approval process by
> > the
> MAG.
> > The "shadow" circle also identifies the need for a process for
> allocation of DC and NRI sessions.
> >
> > It seems to me,  if the MAG and Chair want to show full recognition
> > of
> the organic nature of the DCs and NRIs. a better choice of language is
> needed. ... something more like "collaborative efforts with DCs and NRIs".
> >
> > Rather than MAG approval process.. showing the NRIs and DCs being
> reviewed by the MAG.
> >
> > So,I have a concrete suggestion.  Let's fix this.  The WG and MAG
> > Chair
> can simply withdraw the graphic. Formally. The link should not
> continue to have a document that is according to the Chair, not the formal perspective.
> It needs to say: withdrawn/not approved, or something of that nature
> so that it is not continuing to be available as what seems to be an
> approved recommendation from a WG chaired by the MAG chair.
> >
> > I do not speak for any others, but I do understand clearly how
> > powerful
> a graphic can be in how it conveys information -- or misinformation.
> >
> > Simple solution: noted above.
> >
> > And, again, welcome the Chair's comments. Now time for a solution
> > and
> continued acceptance of the organic and dynamic nature of the NRIs --
> recognizing the presence is indeed one of the best outcomes of WSIS.
> >
> > Marilyn Cade
> > From: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com <mailto:
> otieno.barrack at gmail.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 1:07 AM
> > To: Lynn St.Amour
> > Cc: Igfregionals at intgovforum.org
> > <mailto:Igfregionals at intgovforum.org>;
> B at lucabelli.net <mailto:B at lucabelli.net>
> > Subject: Re: [NRIs List] [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> >
> > Thanks for  the clarification Lynn,
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > On 4/4/19, Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at internet-matters.org <mailto:
> Lynn at internet-matters.org>> wrote:
> > > Dear Lorena, Luca,
> > >
> > > there is a serious misunderstanding here.   The MAG is NOT
> “recommending the
> > > MAG have oversight over the work of the NRIs and the DCs”,  nor was the
> > > Working Group: Multiyear Strategic Work Plan recommending this!   Nor
> is
> > > there a discussion on the MAG re “the MAG having oversight over
> > > the
> NRIs”.
> > >
> > > The MAG and the WG-MWP fully respect the roles and the autonomy of
> > > the
> NRIs
> > > and DCs, and I believe have been working diligently to support the
> NRIs and
> > > DCs - all in our respective capacities and roles.
> > >
> > > As an aid for the community and the MAG, the WG and the
> > > Secretariat
> compiled
> > > a table several years ago (a "Component document" that included
> > > all the component pieces of the IGF ecosystem with all their
> > > reference
> documents
> > > included).  That can be found here:
> > >
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F6
> 212%2F1241&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84
> df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=
> hSbHDSaQ5%2FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX%2Bqvig%2BJTlbw%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F6
> 212%2F1241&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84
> df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=
> hSbHDSaQ5%2FiCvWJb89Wy8QH2lRI04ZXX%2Bqvig%2BJTlbw%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >   Please note: this is the reference document, not the graphic you
> mention
> > > below.
> > >
> > > As the Chair of that WG last year, I will forward this note to the
> > > WG
> asking
> > > for further comments/clarifications.   Just FYI: the WG did not
> request to
> > > be rechartered for 2019.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps clear up the misunderstanding.  If not, please let
> > > us
> know.
> > >
> > >
> > > We are all working towards the same objective, and a dialogue is
> > > much
> more
> > > productive for all.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Lynn
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Apr 3, 2019, at 6:45 PM, lorena jaume <ljaume at hotmail.com <mailto:
> ljaume at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Dear all,
> > >> as we discussed in our last call, a working group within the MAG
> > >> is recommending the MAG to have oversight over the work of the
> > >> NRIs and
> the
> > >> DCs. This would mean that the NRI network would not be autonomous
> anymore
> > >> and that our collaborative with the secretariat would not be anymore.
> > >> Afaik this is a decision that procedurally cannot be taken by the
> > >> MAG, since they don't have the competence. So even though the MAG
> > >> wants to discuss the idea of having oversight over the NRIs does
> > >> not mean that
> they
> > >> can have oversight. I am forwarding you an email (see below) from
> > >> the mailinglist of the Dynamic Coalitions. Luca Belli is
> > >> suggesting to
> send a
> > >> statement to the MAG. From our last call I take that the majority
> > >> in
> the
> > >> call had a similar position. Would a joint statement make sense?
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Lorena
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Am 03.04.19, 19:13 schrieb "LB at lucabelli.net <mailto:
> LB at lucabelli.net>" <LB at lucabelli.net <mailto:LB at lucabelli.net>>:
> > >>
> > >>    Dear Eleonora and all,
> > >>
> > >>     Many thanks for sharing these documents.
> > >>
> > >>     I am baffled by the MAG's vision of the IGF "Ecosystem Overview"
> > >> provided in the second document you shared
> > >>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=khIMQenaSO%2FqMc
> xkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdata=khIMQenaSO%2FqMc
> xkHMJY6GwfodcsVsPQykfYE18A6dw%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >> (*Working Group presentation)
> > >>
> > >>     At page 1, the graphic proposed by the MAG explicitly
> > >> mentions
> "MAG
> > >> approval" i.e. MAG control over DCs and NRIs work, which of
> > >> course
> would
> > >> be a self-attribution of non-existing MAG powers concerning what
> > >> can
> be
> > >> done by DCs and NRIs.
> > >>
> > >>     Needless to remind that the MAG is a programme committee that
> > >> has
> all
> > >> the rights to assess that formal requirements are respected by
> > >> DCs (as they are doing when they ask us to submit session request
> > >> via specific
> > >> forms) and NRIs but has NO right at all to approve the type or
> content of
> > >> the work DCs and NRIs decide to do.
> > >>
> > >>     And, of course, needless to say that this continuous
> > >> underhand attempts from the MAG to assert control over DCs and
> > >> NRIs are not
> really
> > >> the best possible strategy to restore trust between us….
> > >>
> > >>     I think both DCs and NRIs should carefully check these sort
> > >> of
> sneaky
> > >> attempts to control WHAT we do and STRONGLY oppose it.
> > >>
> > >>     I am writing in the hope we jointly agree to send a shared
> > >> and
> robust
> > >> message opposing this very peculiar MAG “overview”
> > >>
> > >>     Best
> > >>     Luca
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------
> > >>    Luca Belli, PhD
> > >>    Professor of Internet Governance and Regulation, FGV Rio de
> Janeiro Law
> > >> School
> > >>    Chercheur Associé, Centre de Droit Public
> > >> Comparé, Université Paris 2
> > >>
> > >>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.internet-gover
> nance.fgv.br&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C
> 84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdat
> a=p8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.internet-gover
> nance.fgv.br&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C
> 84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904293881&sdat
> a=p8O7ZEOoKX26cxnkyFv2oHhoWsiMoLwRQ4VMvxW9IV0%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >>    @1lucabelli
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
> > >>    This message, as well as any attached document, may contain
> information
> > >> that is confidential and privileged and is intended only for the
> > >> use
> of
> > >> the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient,
> > >> you
> are
> > >> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution of
> > >> this
> email
> > >> or attached documents, or taking any action in reliance on the
> contents of
> > >> this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited and may be
> > >> unlawful. Please contact the sender if you believe you have
> > >> received
> this
> > >> email by mistake.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>    --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [DC] IGF
> multi-year
> > >> work programme
> > >>    From: "Eleonora Mazzucchi" <eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org <mailto:
> eleonora.mazzucchi at un.org>>
> > >>    Date: 4/3/19 9:09 am
> > >>    To: "dc" <dc at intgovforum.org <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>,
> "Markus Kummer"
> > >> <kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>,
> "sivasubramanian muthusamy"
> > >> <6.internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.internet at gmail.com>>
> > >>
> > >>    Dear All,
> > >>
> > >>     With apologies to those who were missing one of the documents
> > >> referenced by Markus last week, please find both linked below:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F
> 7662%2F1535&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C8
> 4df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata
> =2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX%2F9s%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> intgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Findex.php%3Fq%3Dfiledepot_download%2F
> 7662%2F1535&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C8
> 4df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata
> =2xKvJrgwiW5MfjJ90QhJEwxFKHP1UdkBOEf9NSPX%2F9s%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >> (*strategy/discussion paper)
> > >>
> > >>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31h
> G%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31h
> G%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >> (*Working Group presentation)
> > >>
> > >>     Thank you to Sivas for pointing this out!
> > >>
> > >>     Best,
> > >>     Eleonora
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>     -----Original Message-----
> > >>     From: Sivasubramanian M [mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com <mailto:
> 6.Internet at gmail.com>]
> > >>     Sent: Sunday, 24 March, 2019 7:18 PM
> > >>     To: Markus Kummer <kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:
> kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
> > >>     Cc: dc <dc at intgovforum.org <mailto:dc at intgovforum.org>>
> > >>     Subject: Re: [DC] IGF multi-year work programme
> > >>
> > >>     Dear Markus,
> > >>
> > >>     You mentioned "both" documents, but the two links point to
> > >> the
> same
> > >> document.
> > >>
> > >>     Sivasubramanian M
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>     On Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 4:55 PM Markus Kummer <
> kummer.markus at gmail.com <mailto:kummer.markus at gmail.com>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Dear all,
> > >>>
> > >>> At our last call we discussed briefly the output of the WG
> > >>> Multi-Year Work Programme. We did not discuss this in detail,
> > >>> but agreed to take the discussion on the list and to encourage
> > >>> all DCs to look into
> this,
> > >>> as we agreed it would be important to provide a DC perspective
> > >>> into this more strategic discussion. During the call we share a
> > >>> link to
> the
> > >>> discussion paper, copied below, but not to the WG's presentation
> > >>> describing the IGF
> > >>> Ecosystem:
> > >>>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31h
> G%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31h
> G%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0>
> <
> > >>>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31h
> G%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i
> ntgovforum.org%2Fmultilingual%2Ffiledepot_download%2F5075%2F1259&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=pOWE0md%2FA6W31h
> G%2Bt5%2BgGNjMt19vyy4HNjGIXBTNycg%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Please look at both documents and share your impressions on the list.
> > >>>
> > >>> Many thanks in advance for your feed-back Markus
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> DC mailing list
> > >>> DC at intgovforum.org <mailto:DC at intgovforum.org> To unsubscribe or
> > >>> manage your options please go to
> > >>>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fintgo
> vforum.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdc_intgovforum.org&data=02%7C01%
> 7C%7C0a869ab461884879448e08d6b984b1da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
> aa%7C1%7C0%7C636900376904303886&sdata=e%2BypOTGjlV3ADEy95vB9Vzm1jH
> pM%2Fc9LmqINV8%2FEHOg%3D&reserved=0
> <
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