The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> MODERATOR: Welcome to the folks in the audience. We will be using digital platforms to promote international integrity. My name is Maurice Turner. And I'm on the publicity policy team at TikTok. Welcome whoever is here in person as well as online. My name is Maurice Turner. And we will be discussing using digital platforms to promote information integrity.
Again, I want to welcome everyone here in person and online. And for our panel discussion, we are going to be talking about using digital platforms to promote information integrity as several panelists here. And I would like to start off with a brief introduction to how we are facing this challenge at TikTok. And then I will get into a Q&A for questions for the audience. So please be in this panel discussion. So we will have mic phones on both sides of the table to we can encourage questions. And encouraging questions online. If you have any questions. Feel free to type those in, and we have someone monitoring that online discussion. So your question can be asked towards the end of the session.
At TikTok we believe this conversations is important because information integrity itself is important, both to inspire our creators, to promote credible information, but also tone sure that organisations are doing important work to amplify their own messages. We looking forward to hearing more about organisations doing that work in our discussion later on today.
At TikTok we remain committed to using fact checking to make sure the content on our platform it free from misinformation. We partner with more than 20 accredited fact checking organisations across six different markets. We do this work continuously to ensure that we are making sure that our platform is as free from misinformation as possible. And we also empower users to through media literacy programmes to give them resources to recognize misinformation and assess content critically and report any violative content.
And now for our panelists. I would like to go ahead and start off with introductions. Dr. Ahmed. He produces a creator that produces content. We also have Eeva from the information society as well as Gisella from the UMHCR. As an icebreaker, let's go ahead and start off with the introduction. Dr. Ahmed, how do you -- how would you like to introduce yourself and talk about how you produce content on TikTok.
>> DR. AHMED EZZAT: Thank you so much for the introduction. I'm Dr. Ahmed Ezzat. I'm a surgeon general in London. I create clinical content. And my focus is health news, and I also do lots of focus strategy and campaigns. And one of the draws for a campaign like TikTok is the force of good it can portray in the way that it's quite sensationist, that if you get the balance right from a public health perspective, for instance in the U.K. there's been a heat wave. Can you reach 1 million people, half a million people within less than 24 hours at zero cost essentially, which is a massive gain, I find. So I think there's a massive power of good if it's handwritten as well as using evidence based information.
>> MODERATOR: And Eeva, how do you focus on platform?
>> EEVA MOORE: We focus on educational. We work for a third of the content online. That can be like building infrastructure in the 181 countries where we have chapters. So a lot of it is educational. And a lot of advocacy and a lot of community stories. So how do we demonstrate the impact we are having in the world without making ourselves the center of the story itself.
>> GISELLA LOMAX: Thanks. Hi, everyone. My name is Gisella Lomax. I do content. This is my first time at UNHCR. We are protecting the world's refugees, forcibly displaced asylum speakers. 120 million people now across 133 countries. We are using social media. It's violation.
As Ahmed said, the reach is massive. One to protect violation life saving information in community, both in communication context and attractive context and inform the general government and stakeholders including government partners and Civil Society and the private sector about the work to lift up the voices of our refugee voices as well and amplify communities and inspire.
And I would say, as a little known fact, is we were the first UN agency to create a TikTok account quite a few years ago now, and I think it's very interesting the way TikTok really seeks to make important information entertaining. Although that also comes with challenges, but we will come to that.
>> MODERATOR: We are also joined online by our panelist. Ghaleb Cabbabe.
>> GHALEB CABBABE: First, it's nice to connection online. I'm Ghaleb, with the IFRC, the information from Red Cross Societies based in Geneva. How do we use different platforms? Usually the menu is for brand awareness to make sure people know what we do, how we do it.
We also use digital platforms. And this is a big part of the work in crisis mode sometimes when, for example we have a disaster or earthquake, lately in Myanmar or in Gaza or Iran. So this is crisis mode. Sometimes it's to share information. Sometimes it's to not to have misinformation. I think we will open this topic more in detail in the next coming minutes.
And sometimes we also use digital platforms for direction or indirect fundraising campaigns. So we are happy to be on TikTok. And I can recall working with the Red Cross back in 2017, where it was -- we can say the beginning of the platform. And to see where it is today, I think that's quite a great achievement.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you. I will go ahead and start us off with a specific question for Dr. Ahmed. How did you get your start on TikTok? And what are some of the ways you would achieve your goal of making sure that you are getting content out on the platform and out to an audience, specifically related to STEM and equality.
>> DR. AHMED EZZAT: I think when I started my journey as a medical professional on a different journey, I wanted to start my platform for different reasons, which was seemingly for fun and light hearted. But then I absolutely did not want to be that cliche medic creating content on medicine. But then it was too difficult to resist. Because there was such a need. And we are quite fortunate in the U.K. There is a very well nice and organising climate of clinicians that create content.
And then I had my first bit of content which went viral and hit 4.5 million views. And this was on infection in childhood. At the time there was an outbreak. And then this was shared 156,000 times. And I thought, well the U.K. population is in the 60 plus million. 4.5 million is phenomenal. So from that point on, I actually really started to look into TikTok in a very different way. Because the impact is so phenomenal. So that if there were outbreaks on, say, food poisoning, I have had agencies give me information but say, well we can't disclose it publicly just to try to govern misinformation, to try to help information.
So I shifted from a name that I had to begin with, which was a nickname to actually moving tonight using my real name on TikTok, which is to celebrate the -- and leverage the whole point of the fact that you should be held accountable for the medical information that you say. And I really do also see a massive shift in health care professionals in colleagues of mine, who to begin with used to look at social media. TikTok, as a vanity project. But then now governments have been working with us -- you know institutions that are verified. You know political organisations to charities, to steamed companies, because they see the value and the reach that you can have just by creating this content. But the really important bit, about how do you go about achieving your goals, TikTok has been fantastic in trying to balance freedom of information against integral active information.
So we work together to set up the clinical and create a network in the United Kingdom. And it's through having some -- you know micro climate of clinicians that are really there to do a force of good but also using evidence based practice in the same way they would be accountable to the general medical council or whichever organisation they are at in the word, that's the most important thing. Because as a healthcare professional are you not a lifestyle creator, meaning if I were to buy a jeans tomorrow and put it on my post, nobody would care. But if I was to suddenly pick up a brand deal to pick up weight loss medicines, for example,which is a law we would get every day that, would decimate the credibility. So you really have to carry the responsibility extremely carefully as a clinician.
>> MODERATOR: Now a question I get pretty regularly how do I make content that is popular on the platform. I'm not an expert on. That so I will leave it to others.
But a related question is what are some of the strategies that might be used to push out content that is actually trustworthy and credible so people on the platform are getting the information they are looking for. Gisella do you have any sort of a response for that?
>> GISELLA LOMAX: Definitely am I was going add to how we use our strategies for social media platforms and digital channels. And I think first, on the communication side, that is very much being creative. It's partnering with influencers and -- you know brands. Uplifting refugee, that's storytelling. Using the facts but trying to put them across in an entertaining and educative way. So all of this good stuff for refugee voices and spark empathy and drive challenge offline and online.
However the challenge is this is flattened by misinformation and disinformation hate speech, these types of information risks. So my role -- I used to work more on the communication side, and now I pay tribute to the communication colleagues and the communications team who do a fantastic job. My work now is on addressing these Ricks. So at UNHCR we have field-based integrity and field based projects around the world, around nine countries basically developing a humanitarian response to disinformation and hate speech. We recently launched a toolkit. If you Google UNHCR toolkit will you fin it. Standards and common standards on all of this technical stuff such as assessing the problem and different types of responses.
And we really have tested a plethora of responds. And I can highlight just a couple, given the time. Obviously they are continuing to fill the gates with proactive, trusted reliable, credible, accessible multilingual -- the list goes on, content and information. And working with digital platforms, including TikTok to try to get this content uplifted because it often naturally isn't the sort of content that rises to the top of algorithms. So this partnership is key.
But the other aspect is how do we deal with a spread of, say, hate speech inciting violence and hate speech and humanitarian action, and misinformation that is making people more hostile of communities. And I would like to highlight one kind of exciting response and if I may a little plug.
We have a really interesting project in South Africa testing prebunking. The inoculation theory of trying to help societies and communities become more resilient to hate and noise in South Africa but we have also benefited from technical support from TikTok and from Google and others as well. And we have an event where we will be showcasing this on Wednesday at 2 o'clock. And my colleague Katie there in the pink jacket can tell you more. So that's a really positive example. But as can you see it runs the gamut but happy to go into detail on some of those.
>> MODERATOR: Ghaleb, I will pass it over to you. As marketing manager what are strategies traits you use to get out that trustworthy information?
>> GHALEB CABBABE: It's a very -- it's a timely question. It's an important one. Not an easy one. Because unfortunately we don't have today all the tools. Because if we looking today at the environment of misinformation, let's face, it we have sometimes companies, farms in some places where their own goal is to produce misinformation. And usually it's very hard to fight against these in terms of resources and in terms of means and in terms of targets.
So what we do, of course, internally is always check, doublecheck and check again, the information we want to share. The information sometimes we between react on. We want to comment on. I will give you an example. It's been unfortunately the case in the past few weeks and months with the killing of PRCS by the colleagues in Gaza for example. In Iran, lately as well. With where we had the Iranian colleagues killed in the latest attack.
So first checking the information and rechecking at local and regional level is inform something that has to be done. We also rely on the experts in their own fields.
Of course we are the marketing, the social media team. But it's not us that make sometimes the goal to a certain line, to a certain reactive line or key messages that we want to share. So relying on experts is really essential. And also the monitoring part. Making sure we try as much as possible to anticipate what could go wrong. To anticipate information that is going out, and that could lead to misinformation situation.
So the monitoring part is also important. And also we are always trying to be -- trying to, again, because it's not an easy battle. A step ahead in terms of being proactive. This would be, for example, by preparing reactive lines. By also trying to identify the different potentials in our use, and be ready if and when it happens.
So these are strategies that we put in place. Again it's not an easy file. It's a very essential one. And we are putting resources. We are also -- as much as possible trying to train staff internally to avoid situations like. This because sometimes, also, this type of misinformation is triggered by a certain, let's say, tweet or information, or post made on TikTok or other platforms that could also trig area reaction or comment that can cascade. So being proactive, training also staff is part of the different strategies.
And let's not forget that the main objective of our communication is of course to be as impactful as possible. And we see this information as a threat not only to the communication that we share on social media. But also sometimes to the credibility of the organisation.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you. Those were quite interesting strategies. Eeva, what about you?
>> EEVA MOORE: I think building on that am I think you have to bake expertise into the production process. Anything you see on the social media platforms should be easily digestible but built on mum. Play layers in our community. We have done things in South Africa which I have never visited so I'm not one to create. That but it should belabor intensive when dealing these types of issues when we are creating them and when we want to be accurate.
It should look like a light lift but actually should be a pretty heavy one. And that I think takes incredible amounts of conversation and listening and being online to see what others are saying. You have be to consuming a lot of information sadly that, includes disinformation if you are going to understand it and to understand how its narrowgating the space.
And the expertise has to be credible, because they don't want to be spoken down.
To when I say expertise, that is legal and imperative. You touched on, for refugee communities it's about the credibility of people. We can all be led down a disinformation path. But I think people have a pretty keen sense of whether or not they want to listen to somebody. And credibility is built into that. So I think relationships is the world you inn habit in real life, how it manifests online I think is reflected into that work. So you have to bake it in. And have you to have your work reviewed. And you have to be willing to produce thing that maybe don't make it out into the world.
You also have to be just willing to see -- to do your best and listen to others and make sure that by the time it gets out the there, it's accurate.
>> MODERATOR: I think that's so key in that -- you know it takes the consumption of so much information and the recognition that not one single person or one organisation has all the expertise. There's reliance on other folks in the community and building those relationships so you can give that information, distill it. And at the end of the day put out a product that looks like it was an easy decision to make because it was actually easy to understand. And there's quite a bit of work that goes into that.
I'm sure all of us, not only on stage and I don't know as well as in the audience have come across challenges of integrity. So I would like to shift the conversation about challenges specifically and also how to overcome those challenges. Ahmed, can you share a challenge you faced and how you were able to overcome that in terms of information and integrity and maybe where you weren't able to overcome it.
>> DR. AHMED EZZAT: Absolutely, fantastic point here. And just to reiterate. One of the strong points of social media, especially short form social media, it can really reach those with lived experiences. And you all very much there and accessible and accountability to the hundreds of comments you get.
But of course disinformation sometimes is difficult to combat. Once it's out it's very difficult. You are almost always on the defense, always trying to defend an accusation. And sometimes it's an unfair footing because you can't go outside of the script of evidence. But I remember when I -- and this was working with -- after a call by a labour MP who now they are in government, who had called out for a -- wouldn't it be perfect to do a campaign on the MMR vaccine, because there was a rise. And TikTok responded and said we will do testimony and I fronted that campaign. And I remember we filmed up in the Midlands of England and London and different demographics of different ethnicities and backgrounds, et cetera. And the reality which was many people who were believing in the vaccination importance. But this was after the backdrop of the COVID vaccination saga, where first of all there was a tile where these medicines were tested in Africa. That created catastrophes in terms of bringing lots of bad memories around it, historical memories.
But then you had lots of top-down suited and booted officials telling people what to do.
And that made thing even worse. And result was that the public health message is transformed forever in that people really don't want to be expected to listen to officials telling them what to do. And this is where social media had risen. But I received a massive backlash when I did the content on the MMR vaccine and with very, very cloud invoices a very, very small minority spreading disinformation.
And I think going back to what you said, that if you build trust and people know that you are doing your best and understand your values over a period of time as opposed to just a one-off hit, then that tone starts to soften. And the other thing I would just say is -- and I've had this conversation with very senior officials from another part of the world, who said Well, you may say that your group of viewers are intuitive. But ours aren't. And this is another well developed nation. One of the most well developed and one of the richest. And I was actually saying it's exactly this mind set which sets us back.
Actually members of the public, regardless of what their understanding, bearing in the U.K. the reading age is 6 to 7 and 3 to 4. They are phenomenally intuitive. And they can sniff out right from wrong. And the last thing, when you are looking at content quality, please don't follow the ship and look at likes. Look at engagement and the quality of engagement in the comments and the type of content.
Because if the content is high equal, it will deliver on the engagement. I would wouldn't worry about the followships and the millions of views. It's about the quality of engagement.
>> MODERATOR: Ghaleb can you share content challenges you faced and raise questions not audience about how you were Abe to overcome them to the audience in this particular space.
>> GHALEB CABBABE: Sure, to give us an occasion maybe on the situation we were dealing with and that sometimes we have to face, I believe -- and maybe I invite also people in the audience to maybe go on our digital platforms and also the digital platforms of maybe also other Red Cross and movement partners like the IFRC and check the comment section. And this is where you would see how complex this environment is. Because today unfortunately we are moving and reacting in a present world. And this is more present. Because we are talking and our work is in war zones and conflict zones, so this is more politicized. So disinformation is more present here.
I think the challenge here is really -- I mean the nature of what we are facing when we talk about misinformation. As I was saying previously, there are people who's work is only to create this type of misinformation and to feed it, and to make if grow online. So sometimes the battle is not an easy one. Because the opponent, if we can call it so, of misinformation, is an opponent with sometimes many resources. You have sometimes stakes behind it.
So I think the challenge comes from here, the very polarized context and also the people who could be behind this misinformation. How we are tried to deal with this, and by sharing, cross-checking and checking again the information before sharing it.
Making sure, sometimes, also in context to anticipate what could be the risk. This is really very important to assess the risk before communicating.
And although we are on Platt forts where you have to be really fast in terms of communication. One thing is sometimes it's better R better not to rush. You have been to prompt, of course. You have to be fast, reactive. But sometimes by taking the time to assess, to see how maybe a certain piece of misinformation is evolving online. The direction it's taking, it gives you maybe a better understanding of the situation and a better way to tackle it.
So yes, being prompt and fast, but do not rush. Its a daily work. It's an ongoing work. It starts, actually, before the misinformation it shared. It starts with what we plan to produce, what we plan to communicate on in our statements and in our press release, in our interviews with the press. And again it was mentioned in the panel, it's not only a social media teamwork. It's the work of the whole team in terms of experts on the legal side, on the meeting side, on the different expertise.
So it's an ongoing work, daily work. And again it's a complex one. And it's not an easy battle.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you. And it seems that not only in doing the work beforehand to prepare and have a process, but also have the confidence and the patience to be able to understand what you are going to be responding to is part of the strategy in responding to that challenge. Gisella, do you have a particular challenge you would like to share.
>> GISELLA LOMAX: Thank you. I would like to expand on. That first is to say, this is multifunctional work. This is not just communications. This is protection, policy, organizational, governance and communications. And so really, it's getting that message across and making sure enthusiast these multifunctional team are resourced.
That's more of an internal challenge for how we address. It but I would say -- I mean there's three very distinct challenges and one is that protection challenge. Information risk such as hate speech and misinformation. Directly and indirectly causing real world harm. I mean violence, killings and persecution that can even be a place in misinformation for refugees.
We saw in Myanmar, in 2016 and 2017, in which hate speech which had been circulating for quite sometime had exploded and had a role of displacing 700,000 are a hinga refugees still there today and normalizing hostilities towards refugees and migrants. The progress and harm over time. The very direction Liberals on the community and the refugee side.
On the humanitarian side it's interrupting conflict around the world and disinformation narratives about humanitarians depoliticizing the work and erode people's trust. And you know trust is everything. And we know that trust can take years or decade aids to build and can be destroyed very, very quickly. And I recognize the importance of individual voices. And I think to celebrate what are you doing and people like you. But let's not forget we also need to help institutions remain trusted as well.
If people can trust public health bodies or UN entities then we also have a challenge.
And a third very specific one is that in trust of safety capacities in digital platforms and tech companies. We have seen to our dismay a weakening of these capacities and perhaps less resourcing from some companies and I would extend that, for example, to content moderation in less common languages. I think this is a question I ask of all tech companies. Are you adequately providing content moderation in these very volatile context where you don't actually have a business context. Are you not selling or making money but your platforms are still driver delivering good information.
So those are three challenges and we are here at an event to design partnerships. And I think speaking as a humanitarian it's building partnerships with tech and digital, digital right organisations and Civil Society NGOs that bring in the skill set, expertise and knowledge we don't have and give a section for the humanitarian. We aren't going to have more capacity. So how can we partner and collaborate to bring in that knowledge and test these responses long over time like digital literacy and more immediate for these quiet harms and conflicts.
So my recommendation is to please talk to us. If you are an academic, there are many research gaps and we can give you access to try to fill those and take your research to fill policies and strategies. If you are a tech company we can find ways to digitise an NGO. There's many more. A recommendation and a plea from us. And that's what brings me here to Oslo this week.
>> MODERATOR: Eeva, I would like to hear more about -- maybe more the technical side of the challenges. What are some of the challenges that are you hearing about from the folks that you are working with? And how they are trying to tackle informing integrity. And what are some of those recommendations that seemed to have surfaced to the top?
>> EEVA MOORE: You could boil the challenge down perhaps to one word, and that's time. If you are in the business of trying to disrupt or break something, you get to move at a much faster pace than if you are on the other side of that equation. So from a purely practical standpoint that, means as coms people leaning into the creative side of it. How can we tell a compelling story at the time with the cycle. We did that with the proposed TikTok ban in the United States. That was a timeline for which this long -- you know period of review did not lesson itself well to.
But we have the experts that had already done the work. So my very qualified fantastic colleague Crealia went in and just plucked headlines from the blog post, designed it within seconds and put it out there. Not seconds, perhaps minutes. So it's knowing what resources are already there that you can act on. Because I agree with Ghaleb that you have to wait but also the aspect of creating it. So the creative side is in and of itself attractive. That's one way around it.
The other way is doing it for the community. Remembering that if you are the person who's job it is to create these things, we are not asking somebody -- we work with volunteers essentially around the world, right. These are people with lives, with families and jobs, often in challenging circumstances as well as less challenging circumstances. You know it's my job, it's my team's job to try to ask as little of them so that when we do ask, they are able to actually jump in and help. But time, it's labour intensive. It's not something that people are swimming in.
>> MODERATOR: It seems like that's a poignant point to wrap up that point. It's a resource that no one has enough.
And earlier this would be a balance of whether do you find that right time? Do you do it fast? Do you wait to be more thorough and what is appropriate for the response that you need given that particular situation.
At this time I would like to give a head and open up the time for questions from the audience. Again we have a microphone. So if you have a question, feel free to step up to the microphones on the side. If you are a little bit shy, that's okay too. You can just raise your hand and maybe pass a note to someone who might have a question. And if you are online, please do type in a question there. And we will have that moderated as well.
>> QUESTION: May I? Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for the panel. My name is Mia Barbosa. I'm a journalist from Brazil and from the Brazilian internet community.
(Applause)
Thank you for all the sharing of your experience producing content for TikTok, specifically if I got it -- or for social media in general. And how you faced the challenges regarding information and technology for us from a journalist perspective is something that is in our most -- this is even of the most important preoccupation at this time. And I would like to hear from you, because regarding the challenges, I didn't see -- besides Gisella mentioning the trust and safety groups or teams from the social media companies. I didn't see many of you mentioning the threats that we have from the business model of the social media themselves. I think that is a big challenge for us. Because on one hand, okay if you think that have you to produce better content, if you have to look for a quiet content.
You but I think we have studies everywhere, all the parts of the world showing that the business models contribute. Of course not all the platforms are the same but they contribute to this kind of content that we are dealing with. And we want to challenge somehow with information integrity. So don't you think that somehow regulating or changing or the companies don't have their role as well in facing these challenges and promoting information integrity, not only with partnerships, with trusted flaggers or thing -- or regarding content moderation. But changing somehow their business models and changing the algorithms.
Because it's true, as you mentioned Gisella, this kind of content is not going to come up naturally. Because there is context to make it everywhere and. The engagement will respond to. That so I think it would be important to hear from you, that if you are starting to produce better content, if the companies don't have their role as well to face this challenge beyond partnerships and support to small programmes and things like that. But changing their business models. Thanks a lot.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you. I will start with -- at the beginning which is that TikTok is committed to this important conversation, which is why we want to make sure that conversations about information integrity are being held at gatherings like this. We certainly supported our users and creators on platform to make sure we reduce the amount of misinformation on platform. That's why we continue to partner with our fact checking organisation partners in the 60 countries that we have those partnerships and as well we have our community guidelines to make sure that everyone has the correct expectations about our view and our enforcement of any potential misinformation or deceptive information that is on platform. I'm happy to go into further details at a later time at our booth. If there are any other questions online. Or perhaps in the audience, any questions for our panelists. Okay.
>> DR. AHMED EZZAT: So I was just going to say on this point, because I'm a realist. And also thinking about policy. Because I'm an academic also. I don't represent TikTok, nor do I represent any other social media platform. But in the real world the responsibility lies on governments to make legislative law. And that law has not happened. So it's for NGOs to lobby politicians to make that legislative change ultimately. Because the problem is about the drowning out of information.
There's been a public study. And this was access to back end information about mental health in the U.K. and it's been published from the University of Birmingham, and guess what young people do not -- you know they want a degree of freedom in the information that is relied but the moment they think it's engineered or modified and there isn't that freedom of information they will stop using it. And that's the whole premise of social media.
And going quickly to Gisella's point. I absolutely agree. Organisations don't agree -- or there isn't a budget to create clinical engagers and trying to gain their enter tease because you have a 24-year-old hiking 2 million views a week, shouldn't we make that connect. And absolutely. And I would like to see all of the organisations sweeping all of the content and the volume, but we need that engagement.
>> GISELLA LOMAX: Just to say I agree. I mean, seriously, looking at information is protection as well as -- an UNHCR item. But absolutely. I think the sweet spot there.
I do think you have to be creative. And pragmatic. Attention spans are changing. The way people learn and consume information is changing. Like it or not. You know our speakers, a mother of teenage daughters. So we have to find that middle spot as well. For us again, coming back to that word of partnership and collaboration, working with people who are -- find creative ways for get across trusted and reliable information.
But I do think, come back to the issue of trust, this is imperative, we don't have time to lose -- and strong information is vital and well balanced information. That takes time. Parliaments can't do it overnight. And at the same time, AI is evolving faster than the speed of light, and the human brain and how we react to information is evolving and trust is being lost in this mix.
And certainly tech companies have the ability to move way more quickly to address that as well:
>> QUESTION: Hello. It's a very small question of clarification for Dr. Ahmed. You said that high equal content usually correlates with high equal engagement. And I'm wondering what exactly distinguished high equal engagement. Particularly just for an every day user. Say, someone like myself, who is not an getter in what you are an expert in. How would I be able to pick up that something is high equal content because -- or by virtue of its high equal engagement. Thank you.
>> DR. AHMED EZZAT: Thank you very much. My statement was more I wouldn't judge the high equal content by fellowship of views but by high equal engagement meaning the micro system the way they used information and for example sometimes can you see through the comments is a very good measure.
But ultimately, starting new -- and this is one way I use content. Very much, I'm traceable down to where I work, my professional attributions. And I don't worry too much about how many views I will get off the post. So whether I do the post and it gets 1,000 views or the do the same post and it gets 1 million views, the ultimate goal is to deliver the consistency. So as a creator, I need to understand what I'm trying to do. So in my case, my domain. Is health new, predominantly which has a short time span. So this is what I would do. But equally you could then identify me on LinkedIn and find out my qualities and attributions. And this is where social media platforms can make a difference.
Clinicians make social media content, and they are far ahead in the game, to make it enforceable to get that validation and to be a creator in that category you need to provide your credentials and qualifications. And I think that's something that is immediately transformational. But as a user identifying and shopping around to know. Because also there are some clinicians -- there are examples of clinicians who have a significant number of followers who were indicted in the federal states or federal government of the United States because of pushing agendas with industry in beverages for example, and they were paid to create content. And they on paper are extremely high equal.
So there is an almost of shopping around but the clinical network being created and social media platforms have said they have to differentiate based on qualifications. I do agree with you on that.
>> QUESTION: Thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Do we have any other questions from the audience? Feel free to step up to the microphone if you have one. Any questions from the online audience? Excellence. Well what I will go ahead and do is wrap us up. Feel free to engage with our panelists as we exit the stage and close out the session, or if not now, then go ahead and find them throughout the week. I think we had an interesting discussion in hearing about how these organisations that you all represent utilize the platform or utilize digital platforms to put out information, to push back against some of that misinformation that is out there.
And we also heard about some strategies for attacking the issue -- the safety issue regarding information integrity. And we also heard some of the recommendations that came through as well. Particularly I enjoyed hearing about those tensions that naturally take place between having to be viewed as experts, recognizing that you also rely on a network of expertise, so it's not just one individual or one solo organisation. And also that tension between balancing that limited resource of time. So being very prompt. But also allowing time for that situation to evolve to better understand how best to respond to it in a way that is not only authentic but in a way that is also prompt so that even when attentions might be shortened, that message can get out effectively.
So again, please do join me in thanking the panel. And also I would like to thank you all for joining this discussion. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your week at the conference.
(Applause)
