IGF 2022 Day 0 Event #7 Connecting schools, Connecting the future of labour, Connecting Africa - RAW

The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF virtual intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.



     >> MODERATOR: Good Morning, Everybody.  Really Happy You Joined Us Here.  I'm Gabriel Karsan.  As we are all students here.  We are also part of labor as much as also part of the future and I would like to begin with a simple quote from John Dube who said if we teach today our kids 80s how we taught them yesterday we are robbing them of their few.  The inspiration of this session is about us all.  We are products are the education system even though this might not be in the same practicality or the same mechanism that it maps today but we are products and sharing together.  Our session is about to understand how we are objective in creating more synergies of shaping the future under the scope of the internet governance.  Our session is Titled connecting schools, connecting labor, and connectth the future.  Yesterday I went to the national museum in Ethiopia and one of my colleagues said that the best thing about being co-low niced is everything is the same.  It is something that is actually local in the sense that it can be passed on, it is something you can identify with and I believe for me that is an education system because the education system with the pure reform and education system that actually extends in locality what the people need and have ownership creates the mind set that can fabricate the engagement and this is what the multi-stakeholder event give us us with a voice to contribute.  Contribute in the future that can be shaped today.  So, beginning I would like to welcome Catherine.  Catherine Kimambo works in the project of school connectivity.  What was the inspiration of connecting schools and how did you connect the labor and what is the impact?

     >> CATHERINE KIMAMBO: I'm Catherine Kimambo.  I work as a senior advisor for foundation.  To answer the question also in relation to the session it's theme connecting schools and the future labor and connecting Africa, for us the whole inspiration behind school connectivity was how do we connect schools as a gateway to connecting communities that are surrounding the schools.  Because I come from Tanzania where like 60-70% of the population is located in rural areas and places that don't have connectivity but also lest behind in terms of inequalities or when it comes to the education as a whole.  The reason beproject came after the COVID19 pandemic hit.Th were no initiatives.  Ifth were, I think it was only in urban areas mostly.  So during the COVID pandemic we had the foundation and we came with the school connectivity project and tried to see how we can bring all partners together to form this whole coalition of partnership or multi-stakeholder engagement bus we don't believe in one person doing end to end in project development.  That is where we brought onboard different mobile network operators, CSOs, academic institutions and we have development partners and government agenciesiers from my end I'm seeing the impact being changing of the paradigm shift from people imagining connectivity only in urban areas to changing the narrative to see how connectivity can take place in rural areas and we have gone beyond connectivity as per se with also seeing how we can provide skills because you can only provide connectivity.  If there are no skills,th are no how to handle the infrastructureth in --

     How the right content with be consumed by the students so we partnered with people who provide contents, people who provide skills but the most and biggest impact has been the common voice that has been developed so far by all of the partners who have come together in the development of the program.  So tying our whole initiative to the -- to how are we creating this -- I think we are trying to see how that can come out and in communities surrounding the schools and how are we able to create decent jobs and grow the economy in the rural areas.  I think it has been the best practices where we have been able to launch computer labs in rural areas trying to see how internet can take part in the curriculum development and performance of the students as well.  Think for my end that is the huge impact that we have had in 2021, 2022.  And also we are looking forward to see how that can also take -- carry forward in the years to come.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Catherine.  What I'm hearing is that there is a role that infrastructure plays, the interconnectedness nature of the internet where people can utilize it to make purpose and this is what education stands for.  Education that is purposeful creates meaningful community change so beginning at the rural area and actually finding the mechanism to create the rhetoric between the teachers and community and students has been quite foundational best practices.  Just to go to you, when you come from the internet sew sigh tie fellowship which is part of the mechanism of empowering young people in the internet government space.  What can you say is the purpose of having alternative ways or schools in actually creating a labor force multifaceted, multiskilled and I lines for Africa and our world?

     >> Right.  Good morning, everyone.  I hope you are (?) I'm (?) aside from being the youth for internet society and still working in the face.

     >> Why does it immediate alternatives?  In Ghana we have what we call one of the largest sites and we have devices that come from elsewhere and they are dumped in Ghana and a place called (?) and for whatever reason they are serviced to be redistributed and broken apart to find (?) and try to turn into something else.  Now they are trying to -- programs where you can find services centers or centers to see what is reusable and then you can work on them to have them go to communities or distribute them to communities who can make use of the devices.  This is us moving from the idea of break down things.  We probably had to be used in other places but now can be used because there is no expertise to be able to change what you have as waste into things that are useable.  This is alternative to what we usual Li know.  Also governments which usual by -- because there is so much -- so (?) of the devices we consider alternatives to I mean communities we do not have the connective which has also two dimensions and devise and access to connect us.  To in a looking at the alternatives which is the device approach we can have the how do we breech the gap?  Just for you somebody who works at internet sew sigh tie clearly in the project of community networks.  Can you say what is the role of community networks in connecting the future and kicking schools and how can it impact us as community?  Already lfer I would say that it is quite and quite a very important what is the word to use -- the capacity (?) and I also see there is something that needs to be done and then that is in terms of capacity in the people and also to try and really making sure that there is a system of communication because it is one thing to set up towers but also another thing to sustain them and make sure the community understands the importance of it and how they can make it sustainable.  Thank you very much.  And -- you worked with (break in audio)ing down the complexities and say how it is important to say protected and protect the identity and infrastructure and protect the scope of connect investmentity.  What is your take on the topic?

     >> Everyone can hear me?  Thanks for having me here.  I'm is a Maya.  Some have mentioned the issue of the gaps in terms of access to the technologies and it was also mentioned the gap in terms of infrastructure.  So if you -- into the equation we had situations due to the community but then (?) some of these people who were not internet -- (?) or who are not (?) community space and many of them because of no prior knowledge or no prior awareness were exposed to the threats that exist on the internet.  I'm sure we are in the situation where now we are battling the (?) connectivity and have access to the internet and also the issue of people not having the knowledge or situations where teachers that are supposed to, you know, equip the students do not have the necessary skills including the (?) so for me, I would -- I see -- I see this -- I see this whole discussion and I see the issue as one that needs to be addressed from the angles like I mentioned the infrastructure, the skills and security because if you are going to push people to go go online in the world where (?) we have to be online so if you are going to require people to be online and since we are all service are as human rights it is the position of (?) who o have access in knowledge they need.  It is really not great infrastructure and there to use as the infrastructure and how to use the (?) for securing or safety (?) the smart ones using the internet use (?) how do we use it.

     Are we exposing ourselves to unnecessary threats and issues.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  You are part of academia, and as active participant the product of the internet governor system.  Is the take on the topic today?

     >> I hope you can hear me.  I'm a student, a student at Victorian university and to what was just said I use the internet a lot especially to study because sometimes I get to do exams when for example (?) yeah.  And for me, that comes a lot.  So and at the end of the Tay why I close to go to Victoria was because I had the opportunity to be able to study online and do exams online, submit course works and do everything entirely online, yeah.  So at the end of the day I look at for example, during the pandemic while our institution was able to continue, so many schools are not able to continue like our actually in Uganda it was about three years that students were home and [echo in audio] so fast how do we make slur that Ed case is being aided by technology and how to we reissuers it?

       Most of the governments in the Africa including mine usually education is not our priority.  Yeah.  They look at different things to put to but don't look at education but I'm very sure and mostly about villages and cities and when you look at the cities it mostly needs start decisions and smart strategies that around housing and cities education system that the our pan spaces.  So that is what led me to the -- to the interest of the cities.

     >> MODERATOR: How did you come to learn about smart cities?  Did the internet play a critical role in inspiring you and creating the knowledge space for you to come to what you are doing right now?

     >> Because a lot of research requires internet especially when it comes to interacting strategies on smart cities.  Internet and innovation really comes through when designing concepts, designing different infrastructures, yes.  True Li helps.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  In the age and era of the internet should be part and parcel offed education system as something that cannot be distinctly Divisible.  You work in policy.  What is the real that policy plays in connecting the future?  Remind that the internet governance forum, the internet governance stakeholder approach is a place where we can get the inclusive voices but what does it play in making operational impact and how can policy aid in creating a future where education and the internet are part and parcel?

     >> Thank you.  I came from Chad -- high Mame is Jes Jes and I come from Chad.  I think about rural communities when it comes to advocate for the internet and accessibility -- accessibility to connect the schools.  Because accord together my knowledge, what is importance of connecting the schools when the rural communities are lest behind for instance, when those people don't have access to electricity, to digital literacy, and to their local languages for instance to learn a little bit more about what internet is and how they can connect themselves to internet.

     First of all, we don't have the basic need in terms of education like schools how can we I mean invest more.  The most important thing is to bring the stakeholders to the table and then to I mean convince them to invest more on how to help these communities and to balance to achieve the SDG for instance.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  Hello.  So we spoke about quite an important aspect where things that we actually lack basic infrastructure.  But we need to have the stakeholders on the table actually discussing how to make change.  You work in the civil society.  How do you reflect on this and reflect based on the topic at hand?

     >> I agree that the internet is very important for the education.  And also for the stakeholders and decision makers to make decisions.  Now Sudan is among other countries that their education system is at risk of collapse.  And it is very hard to know the reasons, yeah, of course COVID has played a role where students went out of school.  But the number is still increasing and now like they are almost like 7 million children out of school.

     So first to have -- to understand the reason why kids dropping out of school, we need internet.  Because it is very hard to go to these rural areas where across Sudan to know at each location what's the reason.  First if we need like a system where we generate absence reports, definitely we need a system.

     So I think yeah, the community network can play very big role in connecting schools.  And also developing these communities around the schools.  Poverty play a big role.  So if we are connecting people to the internet definitely they will find lively hood opportunities.

     >> MODERATOR: If we could innovate in the space of education where historically education has been quite a creator so much reform and so much changes from there.  I would like to listen from people from Ethiopia who are software engineers.  Please, simply just we want to hear your journey from school, from being part of labor.  What why do you think it is important being connected and why do you think that the new labor forces part and parcel of having the internet as a foundational area for you to make change in the agencies that you like?

     >> Hello.  Can you hear me well?  I'm a service program that works on the different project for different organization and businesses.

     Currently we are working on the project called (?) and it is a platform that connects first graduates and other graduates through different (?).  As you know, internet is expanding to (?) and how we use the internet will impact our lives and it will help us to reach our goals or it will lead us to a wrong path.  And our government and other governments have to work a lot on literacy because there are a Lott of graduates that work on the education that at the end of the day they land in no where because they don't have the digital to help them to gather and look out for the jobs that will help them to (?).

     To fill the gap between this digital space and from the government side and from the private sector by educating these first graduates the digital skills they need to enact these changes and from the government side we need the help by getting the digital literacy from the officials.  Thank you very much.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you for that.  That is quite inspiring.  This is what we mean about connecting schools and connecting labor because this is true to what the connected labor program actually making change in Ethiopia where we are right now.  Let's give a round of applause for that beautiful element.

     You know, that is the purpose and you are secretary of the internet society in Ethiopia.  What do you do of achieving the dreams for Low cal Ethiopians who want to be connected and using the internet in creating their own impact?

     >> Good morning, everyone.  Can you hear me?  Our chapter are composed of technical communities, academics and different, you know, people from different sector so we are trying to bring the positive aspect to the community so we can use it for the learning aspect, you know, community building.  So we have one project that we are working on with -- with internet society is actually initiatives to build a community network in the place called (?).  So like we are bringing university as it is fully and also organization named partners in education who are building schools in the amar region.  With that we are trying to build a community network, you know, to bring to schools and high schools and also the local hospital in the area.

     So these are the kind of positive things that we are doing.  And when it comes to the policy aspect of building (?) we are facing challenge.  Although we have secured the funds and also you know we have a lot of supporters like APC who are, you know, providing us, you know, (?), we are challenged with the policy to build such connectivity for the community.  So but we are trying in everything we can to bring, you know, the policies and this experience of internet to our community.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  It is good to listen to local chapter here in Ethiopia is progressive in.  Professor Noll, I think we have heard from the room different people from different angles and perspectives and access from their own agency what's is connective means and what education means.  You come from a generation where I think you helped shape the internet today and to work directly in school connectivity project.  Practically what should be done next in connecting the future and connecting schools?

     >> Thanks so much.  I lot wove to make a step back and that is I really admire the input of saying we are macing the bake and the backbone because the backbone when we talk about community networks and have to pay $500 per month for the access of five megaba bits per second, plus-minus, that business model doesn't work.

     And that is actually there is no question that we need the internet.  The question which we need to ask is whether the term internet is giving us the connectivity which we need to connect schools and communities.  Here what I'm saying is when I look at the internet today, the whole cloud model is financed by people who are paying for the access.

     Like you go to the western countries and we are paying like let's say $40 and $20 for the mobile access and we are paying each and every one of us let's say $20 to *6 $0 for having the cloud providers.  There are two things.  The infrastructure in Africa is by more more expensive because the distances are so big.

     So you will never ever get down the backbone to a price where you have it in the western world.  Number one.

     Number two, the current earning models doesn't support the 20 to $60 of paying for the internet.  And that means that we need to rethink the internet.  And I would like to challenge you and everyone in the room whether we -- we need to think about how can we (?) that like every village get a community learning living lab.  And that the universities with the internet, with the national research and education networks are the networks which we need to build to connect schools and these community learning living labs.

     So that is the (?) which I want to play into the room and I'm looking forward to hear your reactions.

     >> MODERATOR: The backbone.  The backbone is interesting as you said.  And as you said, we do lack the backbone.  A lot of it is because we are connected -- there is a community aspect of how the internet should be only to the digital economic aspect which does not work in the social construct because we want to have the labor which can actually use the exchange in itself.  You deal with the ITU and the U. is a strategic focal point in actually creating an internet for all.  It actually does not commodify the elements of price.  How do we create the internet for all as the professor said but using a backbone that is actually shared and incremental that every village a connected an every student can get a chance to improve their lives?

     >> Good morning.  Can you hear me?  My name is (?).  Is for the past I think 10 years I have been involved in stand cardization and (?) of smart devices and also on the international level in the (?) set iting and communication Study Group.  So I would like also to say hello professor, that was a very good question.  So I like the question about the backbone.  Well, from my experience and I have been waiting on in the standardization area, I think it seem there's is a big disconnection between the price and set up and the economy in a particular country devices that people should connect.  So you find that there is a higher price of (?) incremental challenges in addition to the (?) country.  So what is the problem?  More especially Africa.

     I think it all comes back to the backbone which I call policy formulation.  I think we are reusing the narrative to say which country in the nation will make their own policies and their own (?) and becomes a challenge for us to have a point to enact a policy that can favor an internet opportunity for the (?) because one of the challenge right now is about African individuals.  Smart devices, data, okay.

     And connectivity is an issue.  We have (?) community networks but it all comes back to the price factor.  That's the challenges we are seeing.  Community networks are very good.  I believe they can connect the internet and can achieve maybe identify the connectivity routes.  Only if we can have a (?) can legalize community (?) to like (?) have the community network without paying prices and everything that I know infrastructure again comes in the same spectrum issues.  So I think for me it is about the price of admission, when need to revisit the policies on the local level, yeah.  Because on the international scene like this we can all talk about the solutions and but (?) out there, too.

     This should be type of policy that -- the type of pricing, that (?) and how they can be accessible.  And also I would encourage to (?) we node more standards in the area of connectivity.  With standards we make (?).  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  That is quite interesting.

     So we have heard different perspectives.  From the policy angle and infrastructure angle and from the youth that actually participate and are taking in building the nations through the internet, through connectivity.  I would like too open up to the room if you have questions based on the subject.  Open your mic and join in the conversation.

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you so much.  My name a frank and I'm from Uganda and I previously worked with refugees on something that we call the refugee community access project and it was main Li a connecting refuges to internet in terms of communication and addressing digital literacy issues and I found that discussion resonating with the work that I was previously Li involved in.  And with respect on theism pact of internet shutdown on refugees and host communities in Uganda and I think one of the key issues that is actually affecting the idea of community networks is the issue of internet shutdown which is also linked to the issues of policy.  Internet -- most internet service providers are actually (?) companies back home in my country in Uganda and they do not have specific policies that deter them from (?) of internet but (?) to the cause of government and they are the most innovative examples has been the recent internet shutdown in Uganda and like my colleague mentioned that access to communication was shut down and where most people actually depending on internet.  And internet was not (?).

     So I think the idea of addressing areas of policy is one of the key issues that will bring one to address.  You find that you are still struggling with issues connecting communities.  By then, government is still passing policies to the recent accession that we have seen in the country if Uganda where tax has not been improsed on data.  Previously it used to be social media tax where someone had to pay every day in order to access the government.  Now so many people are getting the use of private virtual private networks VPN and then the government lad to go back and say so many people are bridging so what do we do.

     The mow while data.  So at the end of the day as long as you are bringing data there is a tax that is imposed on you and you cannot (?).  This is a problem for most people especially those in the rural communities that really cannot be able to access internet.  I think the whole discussion now should be how to engage governments to have policies that will ensure access for all.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  And for our online audience if you have questions please raise your hand and the technical community will assist us on the matter.  Sir, please.

     >> AUDIENCE: Can you hear me, please?  Thank you.  I'm from Ethiopia.  My name is (?).  Previously I was an employees ministry of science and technology.  I think I have dealt with this issue for a number of times or a lot of times.  As you have already mentioned policies is the biggest problem.  Every country, every organization should have policy in place.

     But that is not enough.  Policy should be implemented.  If you have only paper written on the paper but don't take it to the ground, that is a major problem.

     So until the problem Africans have a number of policies, a number of strategies, but practice is the biggest problem.  This is number one problem.

     Another problem is as professor has mentioned, the cost is very high.  The demand and the supply do not match each other.  Many people need internet services, but you don't have infrastructure in place for the telecommunication system cannot entertain all these things which is the biggest problem.

     I think we need support.  We need support just to have to talk everything openly.  We need support from private sector.  We need support from developed countries.  So I think Africa can overcome all these problems when there is support, when there is collaboration, whenth is cooperation with the developed countries and the developed people.  I hope many people have Dom from those countries and they are with us let it be as organization or state representatives let them hear this problem and let them just provide the support to our people.  That is what I want to say.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much for that wisdom and it is important in the multi-stakeholder for having the communities.  Sir, behind.  Please come with the question.  Please.  Yes.  Closer to the mic.  Already.

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you.  Express by my associate and my English (?) status.

     >> MODERATOR: They can translate.  Just do French.

     >> AUDIENCE: Okay.  [Speaking in non-English language]

     >> MODERATOR: Okay.  He that he is part of the ICT ministry and working on the project on digitalization.  They are struggle together set up the project and they still need help from more stakeholders and will more a little bit about their projects.  They have the (?) right now and then they need (?).

     So this (?) shared apart from resource so we can like have them in term of connectivity.  Yeah.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  And thank you for your remarks.  From this side.  Okay.

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you.  Good morning, everyone.  So my name is Justine I'm from Tanzania.  We have the fund that is assisting the government in rolling out communication services in the internet in the victim languages.

    When we are talking of population for instance in Tanzania the majority of population are living in villages.  So the government try to find ways of connecting the people in the rural areas -- there is a lot of project that we are doing currently so that at least we can connect them.

     What I can say as a government we can't just do it ourselves.  We need collaboration and stakeholders and we need partnerships so we can connect everyone.

     When we are thinking of collaboration we have different stakeholders for instance in our country have a very good collaboration with the (?).  We are trying to make sure at least we are connecting school.  So we are doing our best.  It is impossible for the government to do it ourselves.  We just need everyone to come together so that we can make sure everyone regardless of location, position, have access to internet.  So with that, I just urge everyone to make sure that for those we have a lot of issues in technology, they can maybe assist the government from making sure that we do the proper internet connectivity to the population and especially those living in rural areas.

     We are talking of community networks.  We are also discussing about it in our country and remember you mentioned very important and mention a very important aspect that we should have proper regulation.  For instance in our country we are struggling because we don't have proper regulation.  Once we have the regulation in place it will be fairly easy for the community to go and assist people in the villages.  Thank you very much.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  Let's go over here.

     >> My name is (?) I come from Uganda and I work with an organization called project Gambia where we promote digital literacy.  Just autoing what the professor and the young woman just said, I don't recall -- just to add to that it is that the internet is everything that internet access continues to be a luxury for many African countries.  Many people depend on the data for in internet connection and the digital data rates are at rates that are expensive compared to the of a Gambian.Thby improving the connectivity and we can reduce the internet effective connectivity.  Yes.

     >> Thank you.

     >> AUDIENCE: Good morning.  My name is (?).  In Nairobi, Kenya.  We worked with the communications of Kenya to form a licensing framework for community networks.

     So Kenya is one of the few countries within the continent that has a community network license that is really a (?) application and IOC member season to get the license is like $50.  So any community can be able to do that.  With that we also have the communication in Kenya to enable communities have access to the universal service fund.  The community networks can apply for the universal service fund and get funding from it.

     And we do that also we enable many community networks to be able to come together and share knowledge because you find there is a challenge of knowledge transfer between the community networks.  So that they come together and do something called peer learning and learn how different successful community networks are coming together.  And help to build the content.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  It shows how Kenya is progressive in terms of using civil society to create operational policy and commend you for that.  I see the role of (?) creating the change and pushing.  And thank you for the additions.  I think most of us could learn from what you are doing and the knowledge in Tanzania.  So if you could have two more questions and then we'll have any reflections from Catherine, professor and you.  Two more questions.  Please, go.

     >> AUDIENCE: Well, it is good to talk about the norms but I think I come from a country where to create a regulatory body is very difficult.

     And this is I mean the same things for all of these countries where democracy is limited.  So in Chad, for instance, we every time have internet shut down when it comes to (?) and rights left behind somehow can we make sure that the regulatory body we are building can be inclusive and independent?

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you for that.

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you very much.  My name is (?) from (?).  My question is also almost similar with my colleague.  The question is related to not only the regulation system, not only the regulatory body system but the regulation of the international arena has to be inclusive especially in the digital areas it has to be well established because countries are autonomous by themselves they have autonomous rights but the connectivity beyond that.

     So it has to be connected.  So how to resolve the challenges.  The autonomous part of the countries or the surveil issue has so many things in terms of that but the inclusiveness makes beyond that really in the global community but the issue of autonomous is such a challenge.  How can we solve the challenge?  Thank you very much.

     >> MODERATOR: I think professor should take this.  They have spoken about the autonomous regulation and actually pushing for more connectivity.  If you could respond.

     >> I really love pointing out that yes we need bring all partners together but we also have to change the universities and really tell the universities that we need to do practical connectivity.

     We need to work on practical empowerment and we need to push the internet out to schools and others.  And at the same time, the route we have gone in Kenya with the community and in Ethiopia with the safari com and in Tanzania with the foundation we showd that operators have understood the value of connecting schools.

     And we actually got in Kenya we safari Com to give us with five megabits for $58 per month which is cheaper than other areas.  And the conversations suggest that (?).  So I think there is still room for not only thinking NGB but getting in the discussions together with the governmental organizations and then ask the operators how can you help us in the connecting schools and what we call the community living, learning and living labs.  I hope that answered a bit of your questions.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  Catherine, in your closing remarks, if you could point from perspective and ideas from the room and professor to also the reflection and then we will conclude.

     >> CATHERINE KIMAMBO: So I think I will go back to what professor Noll was saying we need all stakeholders to be on one table because the goodwill from development partners is there but still we are missing the sustainability aspect of these projects.  When you speak, it is a social type of project and then the policy side of it as well.  Where our government has recently I think in 2020 there was a policy that was set that you can't charge students for anything around school.  The education is free.  When you put such a service in school who takes up the costs after the operation costs after all of the (?) has been in place?  So you are coming to she most of our ministries are working in sigh Lows, the ministry of finance and ICT and education.  The ministry you have different ministries that come together.

     So the at end of the day you end up asking who takes up these costs?  The minister of finance or minister of education and all of them L. not talk to one another bus when you go to the ministry of education they say this is an ICT project.  And the ICT say this is the education project and you might be bouncing around from one to the next trying to find what is the (?) part of these projects.  Then again, when you come to policies I think most of the policies are working against social projects because the commercial aspect of it is missing.  I think from my end I -- from my closing remarks I would say when policy makers are making this policy I think it is best to at least involve people who are working direct Li on the ground to try and see this way forward how are the policies working for us and not against us.  For a program as school connectivity we have the infrastructure in place.  And then subjects that ICT are still optional to most schools.  You go to the school and have all of the infrastructure in place and the government says the subjects are optional.  They ever still not mandatory.  A student can elect to take the subject or not.  At the end of the day, everything is in place but still you don't have students taking the subjects.  The policy is still working against us when it comes to digital advancements in most countries.

     >> MODERATOR: Professor, closing remarks?

     >> In short, I really love the discussion but I would love to challenge you that say how would your internet in Africa look like where are the contributions for the -- from the partners.  And how can we contributions together?  In Tanzania we built the regional centers at the universities and research institutes like the institute of technology the competence and actually connect the schools.  And we actually came up how can we use 5G in Africa to connect schools and that is the connection we are bringing with the regional centers and (?) as a commercial operator to see actually is that one of the success criteria which will help us to reach out further to schools.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  And in the history of the internet, academia played a great role from the history and everything.  Academia plays an interesting role to connect everybody because it is the place where you can explore ideas and create purpose.  The internet itself is a social experiment where we have more than five billion people Democratically connected and have a voice to change the world.  My closing remarks would be to you, knowledge is important.  The internet is something that is quite personal to all of us in terms of use.  To Sonam it is within our agency and obligation to ensure accessible and free he in all aspects from regulation, from government, from the business community and it begins with us and this conversations and what the Internet Governance Forum has provided us the multi-stakeholder approach.  Thank you for joining and here is a hand of applause for the session leaders.  And for that, we are closed.  Thank you so much.