IGF 2022 Day 3 Open Forum #88 EU Delegation to the IGF & Youth IGF

The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.



>> YULIYA MORENETS:  Good morning to everybody.  I don't know if the room in Addis Ababa can hear me.  Because I don't have any sound actually.  I don't know if we wait 5 minutes more and start at 45 as is written on the screen.  We also need a technical team from the IGF if you can kindly come and help us with that in our Zoom room, that will help us.  We have a lot of video material to show with the room as well.

>> Good morning, could I ask the IT staff, Yuliya Morenet is trying to start the meeting but we cannot hear it.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: I would suggest to wait 5 minutes.  I have the impression that someone is hearing us.

>> JOAO PEDRO MARTINS:  We can now hear you.  We're actually ‑‑ we'll definitely wait for 5 more minutes, the session was put forward for 15 minutes so we'll give the opportunity for more to join.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: We didn't introduce you.  We'll do that in a proper while in a while, Joao Pedro Martins, thank you for taking the leadership and helping on site.  If we can kindly ask the technical team to come in the remote, in the Zoom as well because we definitely need to show video material and that will help, if they can show up and help us actually. .

Good morning.  I think we should start.  We fixed a few technical issues for the hybrid meeting.

First of all, good morning, please be welcome to this open forum 88, which is the open forum organized by the Youth IGF in cooperation with the European Union delegation to the IGF.

My name is Yuliya Morenet, I'm the Youth IGF founder.  I will be with you online.  That will be a hybrid meeting.    The challenging one, as we have had a few technical issues but that's solved!  That's a good start.

I'm in France and I'm a former MAG member as well.  I have been working a lot on cybercrime around the world with different international organizations and national organizations to draft a cybercrime law in various countries.  These open forum, this is foreseen today to bring together the decision makers, so the members of the European Parliament delegation and the youth voices from the Youth IGF.  I would like to welcome and thank the distinguished guests that we have on stage, the European Parliament delegation I would like to present to you just right now.

We have with us the head of the delegation to the IGF, Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri, please be welcome, from the S & D from the European Parliament, head of delegation.

We have with us Mr. Axel Voss, from the European Parliament, Mr. Axel Voss, please be welcome.  I'm not sure if we need to introduce more.  We'll have the discussion on corporate, I know that this subject here is dear to you.  Please be welcome.

I think we have with us as part of the European delegation Mr. Ivars Ijabs, please be welcome.  You are from renew Europe and European Parliament.

If I am missing a few members of the European Parliament delegation, Ms. Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri, please correct me and please introduce the members of the delegation in a few moments.

The objective of this open forum that was proposed by the Youth IGF is actually to bring the voices of the ‑‑ I call them change maker, the leaders of the Youth IGF and the European Parliament delegation on the Global Digital Compact.

As you know, this is a continuation of the UN roadmap on digital cooperation proposed by UN secretary again Secretary‑General and it is gathering opinions from around the world on the future of the Internet that will feed to the conference next year as it was announced by the UN Secretary‑General Envoy on Technology and we'll feed this conference and the vision of the future of the Internet and the WSIS process, as you know, the IGF has been established by the WSIS process.  We can say in this sense that these future visions of the Internet would also determine the future of the IGF itself.

The idea is actually to bring to you today the vision of the young people on the future of the Internet on priorities of the Digital Compact and to have your reaction is the idea.

The IGF 2022 is actually based on five priorities that have been selected actually from the eight priorities of the UN digital roadmap and we will focus our discussion today on this particular five priorities.

Of course, in order to have the discussion, we need to have young voices, Youth IGF representatives and that's my pleasure to welcome them and to introduce them to you.  A number of them are in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia on stage or in the room and a number of them are present remotely as myself in the Zoom room.

I would like to welcome Joao Pedro Martins, we do see you, from Portugal.  You are the Youth IGF leader from Portugal present in Ethiopia.

We have with us Razoana Moslam, Youth IGF leader in Australia.  Razoana Moslam is present remotely.  If you can say hello to us so we can see you, Razoana Moslam.

>> RAZOANA MOSLAM: Hi, everyone.  Good morning.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you for joining, Razoana Moslam.

We also have with us Samwel Mjirima from Tanzania.  He's remotely present with us.  Please say hello as well so the members of the delegation can see you and all other guests.

>> SAMWEL MJIRIMA: Hey, everyone.  My name is Samwel Mjirima from Tanzania.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

We have with us as well Fabio Monnet, the Youth IGF leader from Switzerland.

Fabio has amazing points of view to share with you in a while.  Fabio, please be welcome with us as well.  I don't know if you were connected or not, or not yet?  Electricity.

>> FABIO MONNET: I'm here.  Thank you.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: We do see you.  Hello, Fabio.  Thank you for joining.

And we have with us Menelik Solomon from Youth IGF Ethiopia leader somewhere in the room on site but not close.  He said to me this morning I will have a lot of pressure I can't sit on stage.  He's in the room, he will be discussing with us.

Of course, we have a number of other people present from Nigeria, South Africa, Valorie from Kenya, others.

If I can have the screen back, that would be amazing.  Thank you so much.

We will start this conversation but before we go on five priorities and tangible views that these young change makers would like to bring to you, the members of the European Parliament delegation to have this open and friendly discussion I would say, we would like to bring the question to Ms. Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri, head of the European Parliament delegation on why actually the European Union has so big interest in Internet Governance, in digital cooperation and why the European Parliament and Commission are strongly supporting the Office of The UN Tech Envoy on Technology?

If you can just explain in a few words so young people also have this vision, the European vision that you have.

>> MIAPETRA KUMPULA-NATRI: Thank you very much and thank you to all Youth IGF participants.  It is very much an honor for us to have a global perspective for this hour as we normally operate 27 European countries.  For U this is a privilege.  Welcome on my behalf and my delegation members, we're three in the room here.

So for us, having the digital compact, it is very much aligned with the values and principles that we're practicing in the European Parliament when we do set legislation also and set principles for Internet.  We understand the global view for the Internet.  It is not split.  It should not be.  It should be open.  It should be secure and it should be accessible for all.

In the European Union, I have a few minutes to tell the international audience that we do our everything for the Sustainable Development Goals t includes the climate, and if I mention what is the biggest issue in Europe now, it is the twin transition meaning two things:  Meaning the Climate Change and digitalization.  This is where we put our budget, where we put our aims, and this is the core of our issues.

So then, when we read the social needs, when we need our internal politics among the 27 countries we see the very same principles in the UN.

When we look at the Internet itself to be open, free, secure, it is much what's happening online.

Of course, before it comes to connectivity, if you have access to Internet, and in Europe, we have been talking about the digital caps, and we understand it is even more urgent globally to reach those three billion.

Even in Europe, whether it is covering the countryside, 3   G is not enough.  You need 4G to have the applications running.  What will happen with the 5G and new technologies, we're legislating also some principles for how to use new technologies.

If you remember one keyword why we're legislating, we want also the disruptive technologies like AI to be human‑centric.  The applications of the technology should be human‑centric not to look at the government power, the money power, but look at how it will impact the citizens and people.

Having all that, I think it is very interesting to hear your comments and as very dedicated for the UN principles inside of the European Union also we want to work for the good Global Digital Compact to be accepted in September next year.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you for this insight.  I think it gives the flavor to our discussion.

We will discuss about these five priorities.  I would like to mention them, we will really go deep in the conversation touching on connectivity, connecting for all, safeguarding Human Rights, we'll speak about the Internet fragmentation, about how do we govern data and protecting privacy of citizens, we'll be speaking about security and safety and, of course, AI and innovative advanced technologies and innovation.

I would like to start the first topic, the fragmentation of the Internet, when we talk about the fragmentation of the Internet, that depends on how we approach the question, right.  It is a little bit up to you to tell us what is your vision.  I would like it start with this short film actually made by Joao Pedro Martins on stage himself, not only a technical person and the leader, but also a film maker I would say.

Let's check it and I hope technology will work and then we'll be back to the question with the discussion.

>> Today I'm presenting to you an application for knowing if there is a lot of people near the beach that you want to go.  This was developed by the Portuguese government and basically it relies on location and the info provided by those who are at the beach.  You can see the safety rules for attending the beach which are also available in English and search for the nearby beaches.

For instance, where I live, after doing a search, I can see that there is a low occupation here and I can go further and ask for directions.  This is good, currently we have to stay and keep the social distancing.

That's it for today.  See you.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Electricity.  I hope we saw the video in Addis Ababa because we saw it well here in Europe.

Joao Pedro Martins’ question is the following, that's amazing, I mean, that app is amazing and Ms. Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri had mentioned the applications, you know.

I have a question, you know, we ‑‑ well, does it ‑‑ can this leave to the situation and lead to the situation when we have, you know, this population very well connected using these apps, et cetera, those actually they don't have a clue about all of the digital solutions, et cetera.  At the end of the day, bring to the fragmentation of the Internet, not from the sovereignty point of view but from the usability point of view.

That's may first question.

Second one unfortunately we don't have anyone from Portugal with us today, do you think that in Portugal all is going well with digitalization and we don't have to do more or it is not the case?  Joao Pedro Martins, if you can comment and then we'll go back to the MMPs for their comments actually on that.

>> JOAO PPEDO MARTINS: Perfect.  Thank you.

My name is Joao Pedro Martins.  I'm joining from Portugal.

First of all, thank you very much for enjoying my local town beach which is also very interesting to present to you, to give you just first of all some context on the video:  It was during COVID, pandemic time, it was an initiative from the government to present the return to the beaches during summertime in a more safer way giving all the people the possibility to before going to a given beach the possibility of knowing if it was too crowded or if he had should try to find someplace less crowded.

This is basically the idea of the presentation.

I think it sets the theme for the question that Yuliya Morenet presented.

Basically, I think it is also ‑‑ it should be interesting to analyze this from both a local perspective and a more generalized context as well.

At a local level, I could tell you that maybe 50% of the people would have installed that application because they would rather go take their cars and just walk around and see if the park was actually empty or too crowded, and then decide to.  This also touches very close to the human‑centric perspective we just started a few minutes ago.

Nevertheless, the question remains, if everyone was to have the application, would everyone also have the possibility to know how to engage with the application?  I think it touches from a technical perspective the challenge of making the usability of the application and the tangible value to the user available and clear from the start which sometimes is not the case.

I think that amount indications, it is just an example, but at the Portuguese level we also have other applications that our governments developed, for instance, we have for the healthcare system an application called NSS and NS24 which allows you foreseeing your prescriptions, your vaccination process, it can even allow you to set meetings and appointments with your local practitioner.

At the same time, we also see it a little bit as the start of the digitalization process of these areas.  For instance, you still have to book an appointment and receive a phone call to actually put it in place at the local level.  For me, this raises a lot of questions.  If you're taking the digital path, how easy and how generalizable will it be also for the services that are ran at national and international level to catch up with this.

We have also been using in Addis Ababa a ride sharing application, very common for those of you that also use it at your home countries and this is also the case.  We could actually book it, but then we receive instantly a phone call from the rider to really confirm the details and to make sure that we do not have some problems.

>> I'm from Tanzania, I would like to share with you some points regarding the impacts ‑‑

>> JOAO PPEDO MARTINS: I think you'll have the opportunity to share that with us in just a few minutes.

Let me just conclude touching the last question from the last point.

I think looking forward, the challenge will also be to also work and for our context today here at the EU level, so the application was sharing locations, if you remember during COVID times we also put up protocol in place that was supposedly interoperating at an international level in the EU level.  For me, this raises a lot of questions, from technical perspective, are we ready to accept the protocols in place and more of a regulatory place and regulatory perspective, are we ready also to allow those protocols to go live?  This is perhaps my first round of words.

This is really to set the theme for our proper discussion with also all of you in the room.

Thank you.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

Apologies for the interruption, that's how it works when we didn't test technical elements beforehand.

Thank you for giving this, you know, point of view.  Now we need to turn to the members of the European Parliament.  I don't know who would like to react, Mr. Axel Voss, Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri or the colleague as well.

>> MIAPETRA KUMPULA-NATRI: Let me ‑‑ I will start with two remarks, it was very clear to start from the concrete one.

One, on this word of the usability, you need some skills, at least to load an application, if you're connected, you have a smartphone, everything, so one plea, please teach your parents too and especially teach your grandparents.

I'm engineer, I'm digital politician and I still need help with my son of 14 sometimes.  If I were to be on social media, my girl is all the time commenting or, mom, why don't you do it this way that way.  That kind of education, it is very difficult to bring to the schools or somewhere.  That's the easiest way.  Please be active in your neighborhood, with your close people.  Also then they can be digital grandmothers, I love it when I see how they get connected and they are so happy, people in their 80s or something.  It is not just give them a piece of paper, just give them a little bit of advice, install the programmes and they're connected globally.  That's wonderful.

The second one, more for our politician's duty so that you can start vaccination application, whatever, you need to trust the system.  Who will be responsible for those?  It is a lot on the politicians and legislation so that the systems that public sector is offering needs to be secure and there needs to be trust.  That is what you have to require from the governments so that the system's own markets are trusted and especially when it comes to the issues like health.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.


>> AXEL VOSS: So I agree in general with what was said.  I have two daughters and also they are explaining to me how can I be more efficient in my life.  I'm still typing messages instead of dictating it.  This is a question of again ration I would say.  Also the openness, of your minds, so there should be a kind of a changing of mind settings with the older generations, but youth representatives here, you should apply immediately to everything because this is more your future than ours at the end.  That's why you need these digital skills.  There is no way around.  We will live on digitalization and digitalization and you have to adapt, but also here, what Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri had also said, it is a question of education and skills and to get the feeling for what can be done and whatnot.

If we're coming to some applications, especially the vaccine applications, I have a slightly different opinion because everywhere, everything that we're doing, the big elephant in the room, it is the data protection regulation.  This is killing everything because you can't really approach difficulties in a better way.  So on this level of COVID crisis, et cetera, our discussion is only how we can secure all of the data instead of how to better manage the crisis and this is where I'm asking more and more for open for balances.

There is privacy in place to secure privacy and individual rights and on the other hand to move forward, to have better results out of using more data.

Also you can think about how to approach data, this is all what we can have, there are other possibilities but the thinking of ‑‑ I don't want to insult anyone ‑‑ the thinking in the European Parliament is this is so easy, this is not a challenge, saying oh, we have to secure the privacy of everyone instead of thinking how we can balance this better.

I'm always in favor of balancing, of differentiating more and making more possible and this could be done also with the application for the COVID strategy but we haven't at the end.  This is what I'm thinking sometimes is said, that we are not open‑minded enough also for better solutions.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you, Mr. Axel Voss, for bringing this point of view.

Ivars Ijabs, would you like to comment on something or go to the second point which is connecting all people?

>> IVARS IJABS: Well, thank you very much.

Just a brief comment, I think that we should put today's discussion in a broader perspective.

The point that was mentioned by both of my dear colleagues, it is very crucial.  This is about skills, but in a very fundamental sense skills.  We're dealing very much with development in all the regions of the world.  We all know the problems faced by many countries.

From that perspective, I would say that 200 years ago in Europe, coming from Latvia, Western Europe, we had to struggle for universal literacy.  The concept of literacy includes much more than the capability to read and write, it also includes coding.  In that sense, I think that promotion in all parts of the world, of coding skills, from the very young age, it is really a key because I know from my own experience that, well, it can be a big opportunity to start early on with coding education which creates a lot of very high productivity jobs later on.

From that perspective, well, skill is not just about the user skills but also about the skills of how do you create software.  This is very big thing, and in that sense, I would really encourage this.

We're working in the European Parliament on the so‑called digital decade, about our digital development up until 2030 and it consists of four parts.  I think that they all are relevant also for the global digital agenda, first of all, connectivity, which is a big thing, especially Africa where we have been listening a lot about this issue in the last days.  This is about digitalization of businesses in order to make the businesses more productive you have to introduce new digital instruments like Cloud, like different kinds of AI applications.

This is where, of course, trust comes in, what was just mentioned by Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri.  This is about public services, all the public services being available on the Internet.

The fourth thing where we really have this ambition in Europe to have something like 70,000 new ICT specialists produced every year is a number that's quite big.  This is what our economy is going to need to go forward development, the concept, it includes very much the digital and the younger generations, digital native, they have, of course, a lot of challenges, including security challenges that have been mentioned and that have been analyzed before cybersecurity, fraud, so on, so forth.  It provides also a lot of opportunities.  This is where we, politicians, have to come in and to make this thing really feasible and human‑centric, not just about, let's say some high‑level politics but on the everyday lives where people start to use all those opportunities that are provided by the digital technology.

Thank you very much.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you, Mr. Ijabs.

We have to remind that European Union has taken seriously the question of digital skills of course, and as you just said, Mr. Ijabs, maybe in a few years actually we'll have the notion of digital skills, they'll have evolution and it will be completely common, you know, to use AI application as it was with the literacy you just mentioned.  Right.

For that, we will need, of course, connectivity.  We'll need to have to be connected.  That brings me to the second point, which is connecting all people.  You know, the smartphones will soon let users connect by satellite where there is no wi‑fi or cellular coverage.  I would like to have the point of view from Samwel Mjirima, we'll bring him on stage in a minute.  First, we have the video from Tanzania, from the aim school where Samwel works.  I hope that the video will open well.  If not, we'll have just the sounds but we'll check how it works.


>> Hello youth, IGF.  My name is Ally Rachid Ramadhani from Tanzania, I would like to share the impact of satellite connectivity to rural Internet users.  The first thing, it is about adoption.

You know, the community needs education, especially on the new communication technologies because they live in their own ways.  Another thing, it is about the power.  You know, when you want to access Internet, there should be power supply.  Some of the areas have no electricity, they use solar panels in order to connect you to the lights as well as to their computers. 

Other things about the limitation, satellite connectivity needs money to have the terrestrial receivers in order to connect you to the Internet, to access the Internet.

The last, it is the cost.  Satellite connectivity is very expensive.  Some of the people may not be in a position of purchasing devices in order to connect to the Internet as well as paying the fees for the service.

Thank you very much.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: That's the message we wanted to bring you from Tanzania.  We have Samwel Mjirima with us, please be short, we have 25 minutes before the end, we're running out of time.

If you would like to comment, then we will be back for the reaction from the members of the European Parliament.  You have the floor, please be short and introduce yourself quickly.


My name ‑‑ (Zoom freeze).

>> YULIYA MORENETS: I think we lost Samwel Mjirima.  Samwel Mjirima, maybe we will be back in a few minutes to you.  First we go for the comments from the European Parliament, to the members of the European Parliament.  I don't know, Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri, Axel Voss, if you would like to comment quickly as well before we bring back Samwel Mjirima.


When we talk about the Internet to be open, free, secure, it also needs to be affordable, otherwise not everybody is onboard and it will be scattered in that way.  There are different policies that the government can do on the Spectrum, how that will be allocated, how they require the coverage for the telcos and then, of course, I very much appreciate the UN process on the GIGA to get all of the schools connected, then you have also the connectivity in the village where you have a school.  That's very good start.

Knowing that often the coverage is already like this country I think 75%, but the use, it is 25%.  So then again, young people, raise your voice, you want to get your connection and then that you need it and then, it is also of course as said, how the structure, the markets of the telcos, for example, that there should be ways to get more people onboard.

We have had this challenge in Europe as well.  We have the legislation, for example, for the companies who have most significant market power, that they have to share with the others so we can get the competition going on and then also talk to enterprises that a little bit lesson the price for the connectivity, you will get much more traffic and more users again.

So thank you very much for this comment.  It was appreciated.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.  Thank you for mentioning the market, that it needs to be structured, that it is that we need to turn to the decision makers.

And, Samwel Mjirima, you know a little bit about school, you are a school teacher, right?  A school teacher in Tanzania.  Quickly, tell us a bit about the connectivity, how it is in your school.


>> YULIYA MORENETS: Feel free.

>> SAMWEL MJIRIMA: Hello, everybody.

My name is Samwel Mjirima from Tanzania.  (Poor audio quality).

>> YULIYA MORENETS: We need to come back later on to you.  The connectivity, it is really ‑‑ it is not really good.  We will bring ‑‑ we brought your voice already and your issue to the members of the European Parliament.  Of course, we need to say, we know you talked to us, you said that from time to time you need to walk a few kilometers, not only one, to get the Internet connectivity.  You really face this issue in bringing Internet and this knowledge to your kids in your school.

Thank you for that.

We'll be going to the second question and actually I think Mr. Axel Voss will appreciate, it is about AI and corporate.  Another video, we have Razoana with us, I hope you're connected, to bring you to the stage in a second.

We have a video on the issue of copyright and AI.

>> RAZOANA MOSLAM: Good evening, everyone.  My name is Razoana Moslam today I'll talk about the importance of corporate laws regarding artificial intelligence created works.

Artificial intelligence involves technology that does not simply process data at the cost of the human operator but is able to learn from the data in order to make effective decisions and judgment autonomously.  With the rapid increase of complexity of task, artificial intelligence can master the predictability of the output, it is of increasing commercial significance.

Where artificial intelligence played an essential role in the creation of the work, there is still pathways for some copyright protections.

Even with the very capable artificial intelligence, there will probably be a lot of ways for human creativity.  Can any of these be legally protected by copyright laws.  Artificial intelligence, it is able to make creative output in the absence ever protection of human author and copyright is vital to promote the valuable contents, providing the content is required under the current legal framework.

Thank you so much.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you for bringing that topic of copyright and AI.  AI is used to create works for magazine covers for example, but current legislation, it does not always protect AI generated even if created with human health.  That's why we brought this question to Razoana Moslam who can quickly comment on what you just said and we will go for the reaction for the members of the European Parliament.

You have the floor.

>> RAZOANA MOSLAM: Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity.

Hey, everyone, I'm Razoana Moslam.  I am from Australia.  I have been working with the Youth IGF for a long time now.

Today we're going to discuss one of the vital issues that we have been talking for quite a long time now.  It is artificial intelligence and the copyright laws.

A person who did not contribute, a person who did not contribute to a substantially fourth generation of the world is not entitled to be treated as an author.  But AI does not have any right under copyright law and therefore there is no legal obligation to indicate that AI was used to generate the work.

Also in my ‑‑ we may want to indicate that AI was used to help create the work to be transferred to the whole audience.  Transparency, explainability, it is a main ethic, a principle of AI and then we have to make sure that we understand that even though it has not been created by someone individually, but the human participation can be there, like substantially.

If AI created work could be protected by copyright law, who is considered to be the author?  For normal youth perspective, we definitely think who has, you know, given the orders, who started to create the work.

He should be given all of the credit, the copyright pro should be given to him.  That's what I think should be one of the topics that needed to be discussed so thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to speak today and I'm very excited to hear from you guys.

Thank you.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you, Razoana Moslam, for bringing ‑‑ to bring this question to us, to the members of the European Parliament.  I think we're definitely with experts.  We would like to know the point of view of the European Union.  We have with us Axel Voss, you worked a lot on copyright together and Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri, you worked a lot on digitalization and AI as well.  I mean, we're waiting for your comment on what's happening in the European Union but also what you would like to answer to Razoana Moslam.

>> AXEL VOSS: Thanks for the questions.  It's always complicated to find the balance between copyright and also AI or digitalization.

Normally I would say copyright is not fitting digitalization any longer especially what we have done is to balance the situation between the biggest platforms and the creative industry of authors and performer, especially into a better balance.  We concentrated only on the big platforms here.

Because we know creative people need to have also a kind of income and this is a kind of a fundamental right, you do not have to forget intellectual property rights is part of the fundamental rights.

It is important also to have, this is what we have done.  AI, of course, can also be part of it in creating things but so far the copyright, it is just focusing on human beings being creative, and then they will be protected.

What we have throughout the Member States of the European Union, we have exemptions for it.  This is not fully harmonized, it is somehow harmonized, but so that the younger generation can use parts of some copyright protected works, so on.  If you're creating something, what is only artificial, then there is no creative path of a human being in it, that's why we do not think so far ‑‑ and this is of course judged by a court, by the courts ‑‑ so far, that this is not at the level of protection, what you need to be creative at the end.

I wouldn't exclude that we're changing the minds of the judge, the courts one day, but so far with copyright having in mind, I need as a human being creative, then you have the advantage of protecting these.

To detect copyright protected works, here we can be better and also have AI in place and so far, because of the fragmentation in the European Union, every one of the Member States is doing its own copyright, has its own copyright tradition it was not ‑‑ we have not been able so far in coming forward with the ideas, but this should be kind of an idea of what we should come up with hopefully at least next term and we should be better here as a common market for copyright protected works and this may be a kind of a good starting point with this idea but AI, it is the booster of digitalization and here we can play a role in the copyright world.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

>> MIAPETRA KUMPULA-NATRI: I'm elected from Finland, my Prime Minister is visiting Australia today.  It is also proof of the small world!

On AI, we're negotiating at this very moment in the parliament and we'll be hopefully getting to vote what's the parliament opinion on the European way of legislating AI.  I'm an engineer myself too.  It is impossible.  We're not legislating AI, but we're legislating the use cases and when it is about AI, that is used for something that's my fundamental right, whether I get access to the University, it is not enough to say AI doesn't interest you, if I don't get the a loan, the social benefit, so even banks have to have explainability as you said that why something very important is decided on my life and that's the idea of the European AI law and then I hope to see a spread and other ideas globally, how this is possible with the new technologies, should not be causing more harm to the people and this is our human centricity.  Unfortunately we don't have time for deeper discussion on this one, but we will continue.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Very quickly, Mr. Ivars Ijabs, if you would like to react or another point that you would like to bring, a challenging one with you.  Would you like to react quickly?

>> IVARS IJABS: Thank you.

A brief comment.  I think that we have to balance or precaution regarding the AI, which is completely justified with not stifling innovation.

This is a point where we really need a global approach, we all know that geopolitical players, they are competing against each other nowadays and in developing different kinds of AI applications.  The E.U. should take the lead on the one hand, setting the rules, that Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri had talked about, but at the same time providing the way forward, providing a framework for sandboxes for example where you can develop new applications without violating those rights and limitations that we want to impose on them.

There's lots of room of innovation and that's why I want to emphasize, AI has a lot of rights and challenges but it also has a very significant amount of opportunities, for example, in health which was already mentioned, also and fighting Climate Change in many different ways.

So this is our political task to balance those opportunities with challenges.

Thank you.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

We have 10 more minutes.  We would like to bring to you another important point which is the governing data and privacy and we'll take one, two questions, let's be positive, at least one question from the floor.

Very quickly, I would like to bring the question of the GSA, the Digital Services Act ‑‑ DSA ‑‑ that's been published, we would like to bring the opinion from outside of Europe, namely Switzerland, you know, the neighbor country.

We ask this question to Fabio, how this will effect citizens and how citizens will be informed about but also citizens outside of the European Union, very close to the European Union, let's say it this way.  We have one‑minute video and we'll be back for your opinion and for your point of view just after.

Let's go for it.

>> FABIO MONNET: The digital services act has been for two years, I have two opinions, one as a European youth and Swiss opinion, I applaud the effort of the European Union to improve the Rights of users on the social media and platform, I welcome The Rights that we have to challenge online content and the transparency regulation and the new rights that users can enjoy with the advertising.

As a Swiss citizen, I am concerned that a similar thing will happen that's happened with the GDPR, a long time to implement the legislation also in Switzerland.  I urge the Swiss government to take swift action and to install an open, public debate about the content of regulation so that Swiss citizens can very soon ensure the rights as well.  And as a joint message as both a Swiss and also as a European youth I would very much welcome a collective redress options to be expanded upon in the future so that users can be even more powerful.

Thank you very much.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you, Fabio.  Fabio is with us.  I don't know if you would like to react in a very short take, like one minute, just to say something to the members of the European Parliament.

>> FABIO MONNET: Let's see if this works.

Thank you for having me.

Yes.  I was asked to comment on this from a Swiss perspective.  For me, it is really a question of collaboration because I see that in the GDPR this didn't really work well.  This is something that I'll address at the Swiss IGF as well, more to the Swiss policymakers.  I think it is also more general points to expand the regulation, like to the borders outside of the European Union so that all of the countries like worldwide can profit from these kinds ever developments and Las big thank you from Switzerland because I feel like our policymakers are not doing a good job in these things.  Yeah.  So I really hope that in the future they will start to get on this trend as well.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

You heard from Fabio.  You got the opinion from one of the Swiss youth, one of the representatives of the Swiss youth.

If you would like to react, Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri, Axel Voss, Ivars Ijabs, quickly.  So we can have a chance to get one question from the floor.


I think it is fair to say that this targeted advertisement was something added by the European Parliament to this legislation.  It was a group of MEPs being so actively, seeing what's happening in the real life.  For example, advertisement rules for mine minors.  I don't want my daughter at the age of 10 having advertisement on how to have a diet.  It is dangerous, a heath danger.  This kind of legislation was not there, and they can take ‑‑ they can still look at pictures of saying do I look fat.  There was a strong direct link from the Civil Society to the European Parliament we have to do something.  Self‑regulation was not enough.  That's why I really appreciate that you are hearing that and that you are seeing that in other parts of the world.

Of course, implementation is there and we also see some more collaborative action from the platforms, also that when the voices are raised you are active, some politicians take examples, and that could spread into different legislatures to protect this kind of online life.

To summarize DSA, the things that are illegal here, offline in our everyday life, it should be illegal online too.  Whether it is the hate speech, where there is misinformation, whether it is false advertisement, whether it is not protecting the minors, whether it is attacking women's online violence, and so on.

Thank you very much for raising that one.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Vadim Glushchenko, Axel Voss, would you like to react?

>> IVARS IJABS: My quick remark is agreeing by what was just said by Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri.

Regarding our Swiss friends, I would urge you to ask your decision makers to apply for full associate membership in the main European research program, horizon Europe, a lot of digital dimensions in order to facilitate the role of Switzerland in the common European framework and development.

Thank you very much.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

Axel Voss, would you like to say something as well.

>> AXEL VOSS: Yes.  So, of course, data protection, it is a key element in all of the digitalizations so therefore we have to fight for it and there may be other approaches around the world but we have chosen this one.  This is a very strict one.  That's why I think if we can expand this to other regions, it may also be helpful regarding the transfer of data, also this is already kind of an element where everyone has to think about and that's why I'm not sure how the ‑‑ how Switzerland may be also affected by this, but this is then also a decision by the national legislature because the word was also said, collective redress in this data protection issues we're coming more and more to this.  We have done also legislative tool for collective redress in place.  I'm not sure if this is already enforce in a place so that this is ‑‑ already you can apply to this.

But then the transition of these shouldn't take such a long time any longer.  We decided on this in 2019 I think, it should be already there, but collective redress may be an element, especially the digitalization because you're effecting a lot of people and this may also infringe the fundamental rights on the privacy of everyone.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

If you allow, we have 3 more minutes.  We would like to take one question.  We have Menelik Solomon from Ethiopia and we wanted to address the question of metaverse and cybercrime, we have this metaverse place where we can leverage capacities but we don't have the time to go to that subject but we call on Menelik Solomon present in the room.  Very quickly, you have one minute to just ask a straightforward question to the members of the European Parliament.  Please take the mic and take the floor.

>> MENELIK SOLOMON: Thank you, everyone.

Can you hear me?


>> MENELIK SOLOMON: Okay.  Everyone in the tech industry has their own interest and wants to make use of the data that they can get their hands on.  How can we ensure the developing of the trust with any of the stakeholders that are actors in the tech industry?  Who can we trust in this environment?  That's my question.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

I think the question goes a little bit together with what we just discussed, you know, about privacy.

We have Valorie in the room and we'll take that and go back to the European Parliament.

Very quickly, are you with us?

>> Can you hear me?

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Please go ahead.

>> AUDIENCE: Thank you so much for the presentation.

I think my question is especially around the legislations and the policymaking towards things like the DSA, how are you involving to understand what the DSA provides in the EU and as Best Practices leveraged around the world as well.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Valorie, you're from Kenya, right, you're a young lawyer in Kenya, that's where the question comes.

So we'll turn to the members of the European Parliament very quickly, I think we need to make the room free after that, that's why we're rushing a little bit.

Who would like to start.

>> AXEL VOSS: I would like to start with the privacy question.

Of course digitalization, how we let it grow, these last 20 years, it is a kind of a danger for privacy, for personal data, fundamental rights.

So that's why we decided on focusing on this element and how we can secure this.

You need at least a kind of a legislation and to enforce this legislation and to have a kind of an oversight body, we choose the way of an independent data protection, administration and they can do its own job and not having or being restricted by someone of the government or whatever.

You need an independent body, but it's very crucial at the end that you have someone that's in place to do this oversight and to correct and that the companies can't do everything that they would like to do and that probably what they can do.

Here we need some frame in place and this is I would say now very well‑known.

Of course, if everyone accepting to the data processing, et cetera, then it is on the responsibility of the individual at the end.

So it is always a kind of balancing all of these interests and that's why I think we are on a good way, but if you would like to implement something in your country, yes, make sure that you have an independent body in place and a very strong or strict regulation of provision, that this is respected.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

>> MIAPETRA KUMPULA-NATRI: I will take the second question and understanding it is always a good one.  Also this DSA kind of legislation, it is a requirement for the companies, that the users of the platform should be safer.  When you buy things online, the big platforms, they have responsibility to know who are selling there.  So then you don't buy fake medicine or fake shoes or whatever.

Also they should have some responsibilities and not to say I don't know who was it, if it was a real person, or if it was just an Internet site and you put the money, you didn't receive any sneakers that you were paying for.

This kind of a legislation, it is a strong tool and I refer to the AI legislation comparison, when you go to the pharmacy to buy a medicine, you should trust it without being a doctor when you use AI application, you should have a basic trust that it functions okay.  That's way to make it easier.

Then we cannot legislate Africa, but we can legislate even big companies and then you can challenge them also.

You have technical ways to do that, you do that in Europe for the 440 billion people so this is kind of an effect I think we can deliver.

I heard Meta answering one day they don't believe other countries want to do ‑‑ want to do lower level services because they said now what we put pressure on, it gives a lower level service, they're not so much taking my personal information.

Well, that's a question.  Do I want to get somewhat specified that they know everything about me.

So this balance, it is also up to the legislations here.  You can require more when you see that one part of the world is going ahead.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: I think that's definitely the question, and the recommendation for the parliamentary track, right.  We need to bring this kind of question, where parliamentarians from all over the world are present.

Would you like to say ending words before we wrap up very quickly?

>> IVARS IJABS: Well, with time of original enthusiasm, optimism about Internet, it is over.  This is I think one of our main tasks as political decision makers to ensure a regulation which would provide everyone both in Europe and the wider world with liberty, with individual rights, and with secure use of those technologies that are facing us also in the future, not just today, but also in the future.

Thank you very much.

>> YULIYA MORENETS: Thank you.

Unfortunately, I think we need to end this session.  We tried for this session to be, you know, frank, open discussion between the youth representatives and Youth IGF change makers and the European Parliament, members of the European Parliament and the European Parliament delegation to the IGF.  We wanted this to be substantive discussion, the discussion of substantive issues to bring the voice on things that we care and we see in the daily life.

I would like to thank all youth change makers, all youth representatives, and all people and guests in the room and also remotely, I would like to, of course, thank the members of the European Parliament delegation, Axel Voss, Ivars Ijabs and Miapetra Kumpula‑Natri for coming to speak to us.  We hope you will continue talking to us, listening to us and, of course, repeating this kind of events together.

Thank you so much.  I would ask all people present in the room in Addis Ababa, I will not be a part of those people, but still, join the members of the European Parliament on stage for a family photo and please continue the discussion at the IGF and have a great day!

Thank you!