The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Shall we start on time? Is it okay for us to get started on time? Okay. So thank you for joining us on this sunny day for the session, Manga culture and Internet Governance‑the fight against piracy. This is Kensaku Fukui. And this session was brought by the Japan publishers anti‑piracy conference, which was established by five measure publishing companies and lawyers and which has been working to combat Manga piracy. Japanese Manga is popular all around the world. It continues to expand with many adaptions, game adaptions, character goods and fine events. Sales have also increased significantly.
Many cyber publication apps are making new releases available to the public around the world, in English and many other languages. The problem we are facing is the online piracy business, which has rapidly become a huge problem for creators and various creative industries. So far, there are 1100 you nonactive piracy sites for Manga only. The top ten Japanese sites attract 150 million hits per month. This is the number of visits. The three measures English language piracy sites attract even larger visits, some 200 million per month.
It is estimated that free leading Internet was 3.6 billion U.S. dollars by. They are offered by anonymous operators who are combination of various services on the Internet.
Often, the countries where the hosting servers are located, different from the countries where the operators exist. And both seem to be concentrated in countries where the legal pursuit is difficult for political and other reasons.
And the ‑‑ in addition, they select registrars, CDNs, advertising companies or other services that can be easily used anonymously. And basically do not remove illegal content when notices are given.
For five years, we have been working hard to combat Manga piracy and have driven several huge sites to close through legal processes overseas and cooperation with Japanese Internet and advertising industries. As a result, the number of visits to the Japanese language sites dropped from 4 million per month hits was the worst period. However, new problems have arisen when trying to take counter measures such as repeat domain hopping where the target sites change domains in a short period of time. And a number of visits does not decrease any further, but unfortunately, the number of sites tend to increase and diversify.
Manga is loved around the world, but the problem for piracy sites that the impacts Manga artists is still not fully recognized internationally.
It is impossible to curve the piracy without the cooperation and the support from the rest of the world.
Today's diverse speakers include a Manga artist, and a researcher known as the father of the Japanese Internet, a curator who opened the measures among exhibition at British museum and broke record for audience, attendance. And an editor who has worked in the Manga business for almost 20 years in the United States.
Sustainable development of creative activities and the Internet, we would like to gather everyone in the audience and discuss it together. Thank you.
So could you show the ‑‑ yes. This is today's speaker, Hagio‑san's representative work. Okay. So the ‑‑ let me ‑‑ let's start. First we would like to talk about Manga's expansion throughout the world in various forms.
Among the popular Manga one piece has over 510 million copies in circulation so far and on the Guiness world record. Through various ways such as products, movies and events. Could you share your experience about creation and acceptance of Manga overseas, including recent measure exhibition at British museum?
>> NICOLE ROUSMANIERE: I would be delighted to. I'm excited to be here today to talk to you about this because it is an incredibly important subject. But first I will tell you about the British museum exhibition.
Oops. As you can see this is the British museum and we have what we call the Toberones. The introducing Manga at the British museum in the very beginning when you enter the museum. This was in 2019. I have been reading Manga since I was young and I'm passionate about Manga. I was a curator at the British museum for over 15 years. In 2006 we created permanent Japanese galleries. We always had Manga on display. But the British museum has been collecting Manga since the 1920s. But they didn't display them. They were considered Efemora. What I did was occasionally display Manga. And in 2015 I displayed St. Ooni‑san and Nakumura. So three generations. Is sounds likes an odd combination. What happened though was 100,000 people came and looked at it. They assumed that people weren't really interested in Manga. But they had to pay attention then.
So in about a year or two later they asked me would you think about making a large exhibition and I said of course. I wrote up a proposal and they put it to marketing research. I think they believed it wouldn't work. I think they that they were setting me up to fail as they say in English. But they put five exhibitions out. Roman sculpture, a number of different exhibitions and Manga came in as No. 1. They were actually thinking they were not going to do T. But then they realized he they had to do it. So I got the Manga exhibition. And it turns out they gave me the most beautiful space. And this pace is right here. It is called the Sainsbury exhibition galleries. On the ground floor it is huge. This caused a lot of issues within the museum. People felt should Japan be displayed there. Should Manga be displayed there. There was a lot of debate. But happily it went forward and it was a huge resounding success. I want to explain a little bit about the results for that. But we're giving you a sneak preview of the inside of what it looked like. The top two slides are without people in it. And the bottom slide you can see captain Busah and with people in it. It was incredibly crowded. The exhibition was sold out. It turns out afterwards when they did the analysis that it was the best selling exhibition and most importantly, it had the youngest audience that the British museum has ever had. In addition to that, what was impressive is that it had the most diverse audience.
So in Britain they say Bame, but it means audiences that are not white came. And beyond that it was also interesting there were a number of certain types of groups. For example, people with autism with certain types of groups that self‑identified that loved the Manga exhibition. This was a huge surprising result. So basically this summarizes the results of the Manga exhibition. One thing I want to point out is that over half the visitors had never paid for an exhibition at the British museum. What the survey at the end found out most people identified with emotional outcomes.
This means they identified with the material. They averaged time was 1 hour and 33 minutes which is very long for the British museum paid exhibition. This is the exhibition layout and our different zones. But what I want to focus on here is that we created a counterclockwise exhibition. Because in Manga you have to read it from right to left.
And this is fundamentally different from what in Britain, how you read from left to right and even walking counterclockwise was really problematic for a lot of the designers and for the people in the British museum but we did it. And I feel it shows that you can shift people's minds and hearts. It won the good design prize for 2020.
These are just a few of the things that we put in it. And I don't have very much time but I want to explain a couple more things. We, of course, had the father of modern Manga, but what caused a lot of interest was Princess Knight. This was a big surprise for many of our audience. We also had really important artists like Cheba, come and ‑‑ he didn't actually physically come but he drew an Rugby World Cup. He drew a Rugby picture for us and this made a big difference. His work is not translated into English but it seemed to reach people. She was there for us throughout the exhibition but she came with her editor who is extraordinary, and they gave many talks, they showed us how editors and Manga artists work together. And this is a big deal. And something I wanted to just mention is what I learned from it exhibition is that Manga isn't just a Manga artist drawing and then it is published. It is the ‑‑ it is I would say maybe 50%, not quite sure but it is a lot. Once the Manga artist draws the conversations with the editors, name, story boards and the work that the publishing house does, and finally the end product. We did. I want to give one example supreme, maybe some of you know this, but with his editor and during one of their conversations they showed how they work with name story boards. But I want to draw your attention to the drawing itself.
So this is ‑‑ we have blowing on his saxophone and you feel this music shower coming in. It is this immersive quality. It is an emotive immersive quality that Manga has that is so incredibly important. We're coming to the end. I want to say a couple more points. In the middle of the exhibition we decided to put a Manga library. One Manga artist told me Manga is not what you put on the walls, it is what you put on your hands. It really struck me. The British museum say we are not a library. Please don't put a bookshelf in the middle of the exhibition of. It was the most popular of the exhibition. People said they people would steal them. They didn't steal them. But this was wonderful and gave us free downloads. So we had free downloads available.
We had 50 artists, 70 titles. It was a very large exhibition. Just to summarize, Manga material is incredible. You can Buddha and Jesus living together in a gap year and touch Kawa drawing Manga as a subject. You can have incredible subjects right here or one was really popular from web, web Manga to paper Manga called One Punch Man. This was incredibly popular. The power of Manga and how it comes out into your life. We had this fabulous thanks to Qundash attack on Titon. People really identified and it was almost like they had found their tribe, found their Manga. So Manga's power to me because it you can cross boundaries. It is incredibly important. And these are the many lessons I learned from it. What I also learned for the future of Manga we need to protect it. We need to protect the artists. We need to protect their ability to work with the publishers and piracy is something that really endangers the thriving of the industry. So this panel is very important.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much for your impressive insights. And by the way ‑‑ you can keep ‑‑ yes. By the way, this is displays from all over the world. It is interactive of Manga. Andi‑san, could you share your perspective on the rapid growth of the global Manga market from the business side?
>> ANDY NAKATANI: Of course. I'm Andy Nakanwagi. I'm the senior director of online Manga. Prior to that I was editor‑in‑chief of the English language version of Shon. In 2012 we released in a digital format and the content for that came out simultaneously as Japan released chapters we would release them on the same day.
So if we can see the chart, is the slide visible with the chart? I will assume it is. So this chart represents ‑‑ is it there?
>> Hold on.
>> ANDY NAKATANI: Yeah. Okay. So this chart represents Manga sales, graphic novel sales in the U.S. in units. The orange part is represents Manga. And the blue is graphic novels that are not Manga. So the total of the two is total graphic novel sales. We only have data from 2007 on this chart. I wanted to say a couple of things about before. Manga was a very niche market in the U.S. until about 2006 when it reached quite a peak. And the main reason that it is ‑‑ it became popular in 2006 was because of the popularity of animae on broadcast TV and big box bookstores like Borders. 2011 was a little bit of decline. Various market factors, Also Borders started shutting down stores and declared bankruptcy I think in 2011. But moving on from there, there was steady growth. Mainly because of the popularity of Animae in the United States. And then you see this huge spike that's happening around 2019‑2020. And that clearly that was because the pandemic happened. And people needed entertainment and distraction. And they were staying at home.
So they consumed a lot of Manga. Now I want to emphasize that this is for print sales. And let's see, if we can go to the next slide. And before I talk about ‑‑ before I talk about the slide with the various platforms that we have, I do want to talk a little bit about piracy. So illegal content of Manga, pirated content, there are various factors. Like the scanilation sites and that's kind of like a scan and translation. And so a common term is scanilation to refer to the pirated sites. They release a vast amount of content. It is free. And it comes out really fast.
And to sort of come up with a strategy to combat that, there are various official online simul Manga platforms that are available in English. Official platforms from publishers, most of these are from Japanese publishers who have released content in English. There are various business models for these. Various combinations of free content, subscription models, micro transactions, points. But the main thing here is that the content is released simultaneous with chapters that come out in Japanese. So the translated content comes out at the same time.
And, for example, what my company puts out and we put out the first three chapters for free and the latest three chapters for free. To access the chapters in between you subscribe for a low fee.
And so those are just kind of the various models that are out there for simultaneous content.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Okay. Andy, thank you very much for your insights. And yes, so Hagio you are a living legend of the Japanese Manga. Can you share your personal view, experience as for Manga creation and acceptance?
>> MOTO HAGIO: Hi. Yes, so this is Hagio speaking. Thank you very much for coming this afternoon. So I have been reading Manga since I was in primary school. And once I really got into this as due to (?) So they really had very good and interesting works. And I think the best thing about Manga is to have interesting stories and very appealing characters. I think those are the two major points. When I was in primary school, Manga was still something that was regarded as something of rather vulgar in the schools and in the family and in the overall society. That is how people looked at Manga. When we were reading Manga we were scolded. After I read the work, I thought that there are things that we can learn ‑‑ things that we cannot learn in the general society. Parent would tell us to study more and do things more properly. So that is how people looked at Manga in those days. But in the Manga world there were a lot of emotions, a lot of stories and a lot of ‑‑ how human beings can trust each other and a lot of things that we can learn. So through Manga, I was able to learn a lot of things that where people learn to trust each other, aside from what we learn at school.
And through that, I really got into the Manga world. And I kept on diving inside. And at the end of the day, I wanted to become part of that world and that's how I became a Manga artist.
So that is something that I like to continue pursuing in the Manga world. Thank you very much.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: So anybody has any comments or ‑‑ so far?
>> NICOLE ROUSMANIERE: Can I say that ‑‑ can I just mention that what Moto Hagio said is to important. It is how Manga brings you into another way of feeling. It is the immersive quality of Manga is part of it's power. And she explained that.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. I totally agree. Let's move on to the next part, the impact of the piracy. You can keep the powerpoint on every time. So it is a bit busy.
Currently, there is approximately 1100 nonartist sites. And among them, approximately 240 sites are piracy sites in original Japanese. And 400 sites are piracy sites with English translation. And approximately 460 sites are piracy sites, translated into various non‑English other languages.
Yeah. And on this slide you can seat typical Japanese Manga site. On the left‑hand you can find almost all popular Mangas. And you can just click on any images and the list of chapters appear on the right‑hand. And by clicking on a chapter you can immediately scroll to lead the Manga vertically, in quite high quality.
And the visit to top ten piracy sites in original Japanese for August 2023 is as I said more than 150 million visits per month.
And several of them are believed to have operators designing in (?) By analyzing the information or other ‑‑ yeah. Informations. The damage caused by the top ten sites in pan nez is estimated to be approximately 507 billion Japanese Yen. It is estimated by the number of site visits multiplied by regular price. There should be some argument about this calculation. But it is huge.
And this is a typical English Manga piracy site. But as you see, it is pretty much similar to Japanese ones except to translated to English. And visits to the top three English Manga piracy sites are even bigger than Japanese ones. Here some 200 million visits per month.
Andi‑san, could you share your view on such privacy's impact on Manga artists and the industry?
>> ANDY NAKATANI: Sure. So first of all, there is the loss of potential revenue of the Manga artists. But maybe even more than that, I feel that piracy devalues the perception of what Manga is. And devalues all that the Manga artists put into their work. It kind of fosters a sense of entitlement for people who read the pirated content. Where they come to expect ‑‑ they come to expect that they're going to read the content for free and they expect to be able to access it as soon as possible. And at times that's even before the official release of the Japanese content.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. Do you have any feelings about these piracy activities or readers who read piracy sites? If you have any vision or ‑‑
>> MOTO HAGIO: Well, so as a creator of Manga, if it is a pirated site the revenue does not come to the Manga creator. So in the 2000s many publishers digitized Manga and made it available on the Internet. A lot of my works have been exposed on to the Internet. What I thought at that time was this is a very easy and simple thing. And it can easily be shared through the Internet. So I thought I was feared that many people would be reading Manga for free. But well, a publisher is a business entity. They were able to get revenues. And many readers of our old works were also paying and we were able to receive the revenues. And we were able to make a living. And to invest for our future works.
So for us creators, so if we do not get remuneration for what we did, it is very sad and should not happen. So we have to do everything possible to first let the users know that they should not be reading pirated works but they should be reading the official or paid works. So I use Kindle and I buy things through e‑commerce online.
But when there are ‑‑ when there is a choice of you can either get one for free or get one for paid, I tend to use for the paid selection, if I'm extremely poor I might be making a different decision of but that's what I tend to do. So I really appreciate that people should be reading the official versions going on.
Thank you.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Now you are a manager of the Internet world. And this ‑‑ is this the only programme for Manga piracy? Or do you think it has broader relation to Internet at large? Or any other insights or views?
>> JUN MURAI: Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. This is Jun Murai by the way. So the ‑‑ the biggest fund of the Manga in this country, so like Hagio have said, I have been growing up with reading a lot of, a lot of Mangas. And then the ‑‑ you don't believe how I like ‑‑ how I love the Manga for my life.
So the question, are there privates in ‑‑ very much kind of a digitally Internet has been providing the open space for exchanging the idea. And many of the things.
And so the ‑‑ well, the ‑‑ I remember, this is IGF Forum. But Internet Governance Forum by the way. So I kind of when the very beginning of the Internet space, then the first things we encountered are the Internet community. The ‑‑ it is actually the '90s. Some of the people on the world intellectual property came to the Internet space, IETF people. And then started to discuss how the global intellectual property is going to be addressed on the cyberspace. On the Internet space.
That was a very much first experience of mine. I was a representative from IGF and then there is civil representatives from World Intellectual Property Organization. We started to discuss about what the intellectual property to addressed on the Internet space. Because the digital, digital information can be copied and it is exactly the same copying we can generate. And then the multiple copies for everyone. So it varies easily. And then instantly. Any copyrighted material to be in danger in a sense, right, for the things. Not only ‑‑ well, Manga came later but then the music industry woke up on that. And then the movie industry as well.
And so various industries started to struggle with that kind of thing. And free copy of the digitized well, the intellectual property's copyrighted material, the material with the copyright. So we have a long history to work on that. And then the specifically with the sources, I mean people who got kind rights to the Manga artists, of course. And the music artists and then movie intellectual property copyrighted the movie and, et cetera.
So at the same time then the industries over those areas, including the publishing area, they started to think about how to extend their business over the Internet in various ways. And so the encrypted materials and the other things, I mean other technology to support the subscription technology on the Web standard. Those technologies has been provided to protect the sources of intellectual property content in ‑‑ and then ‑‑ so basically the important thing is the working together type of a thing, started that way. So it is always kind of a crimes related, like a piracy is a crime. And then also the technology support to protect that against crime for the kind of owner of the intellectual property.
So that has been worked. Sometimes good. And sometimes damaging the existing industries in a sense. But then from a broader view of history, then they ‑‑ it is very much a working together type of a thing. It has been very important. That's also the spirit of IGF multi‑stakeholder as well.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much for your insight. In order to work together we need to know how piracy sites work. And so let's move on to the next part. Let's see, how such ‑‑ I'm sorry.
Okay. Okay. Let's see how such piracy sites work. This is only a rough picture of how they work. Piracy site operators usually contact with hosting server at centre. Located in different countries where (?). And operators contract with relay servers, too, which is called content stationary networks or CDNs. So they can amplify their ability to accept users at low cost and at larger scale.
Their income typically comes from advertisement, which is on the right hand. The piracy offenders select and combine registrars, hosting servers, advertising companies or other back end services. And as you will see on the next slide, some essential services, illegal site to use, like registrars or service, as you see, concentrated on one or a few companies that can be easily used anonymously and basically do not remove legal content when notices are given.
And there is another problem called domain hoppings. Which is a repeated move with the directed domains during a short period of time. For example, this is a real example and a piracy site called A has changed its redirection ten times to five different domains using three and a half (?) Only. When the domains so rapidly changed, the import for counter measures must start over again. So let's see each such counter measure was confronted a bit more closely.
Okay. And first step of such measures is serving direct removal notices to the sites. One publisher, for example, hires an antipiracy company to make approximately 250,000 removal notices, requests monthly. The next legal procedure, because that many of such removal notices are ignored or even if deleted posted again, so next process, since May 2020 we pursued legal process services, approximately 50 piracy sites in the U.S. only.
And identified the names and other information related to more than 10 personal interests. But it is difficult. And time consuming to uncover their identities and server is overwhelm relocated before uncovered. Once we discover the identity information, then the request for cooperation to following governments, but some countries often respond too late and too little. For example, since October 2020, we offer the identity information and ask to making investigation to certain country.
Actually for the Government through the diplomatic channels and held regular meetings with the policy department in charge. But so far, only one administrative penalty is charged in that region.
All requesting certain registrars, registries and even ICANN to deal with malicious domain or domain hopping problems. In this regard many communicates and many public comments have been made at ICANN. Also recent direct requests to registrars, but no meaningful action has been taken by subject registrars so far.
Or asking certain CDN services to delete legal fines and stop providing their services to the piracy sites. It is simply rejected.
So a lawsuit is ongoing. Or another measure since we are doing these cooperating with Internet and telecommunication industries, making efforts to raise awareness. Actually the situation is improving in Japan. But international awareness has not significantly improved in this regard.
Or removing advertisement placement in order to cut the source of income. In Japan, advertisers and the agency organizations and rightsholders cooperated to establish a framework to ‑‑ for not placing piracy sites. So the situation improved to some extent.
But again outside advertisers, for example, nonmembers of any industry organisation, often do not cooperate. So there are many other (?) On these piracy sites.
Finally, removing search results of actual names and domains of piracy sites and reducing their spread through SNIS. Since 2021 we have removed 28 malicious piracy sites through cooperation with Google, and the courts.
So this is our current situation. Do you have any insights or comments on these efforts?
>> JUN MUARI: Yeah. The process has been done in a very ‑‑ I mean, of course, I'm involved and then the UAE are involved and we have been working on those approaches. So yeah, one of the approaches, by the way, maybe I should explain that in Japan, we have been working together for this issue for a long time. And with with the industry and the Internet community, in the Internet, in the industry actually. And also with ‑‑ if needed, then we are working and asking the Government to move. So when the ‑‑ if ‑‑ so it's been effective sometimes. And sometimes not effective. Since they use the word rejected but then there some of the industry in between the passings of data and the caching the data, like a CDN is very difficult to identify that by their decision, that this is good, but then from the crime side end to end, and then the private is a crime. So crime hunting type of a mechanism could work. And so you think Japan having, you know, utilizing all the possible ways in the past to fight against the piracy. And sometimes effective in terms of international, the place to place relationship with concern countries. When we are started the ICANN process, started the government advisory board. And then the Japan Government raised this issue to the GAC, and then being a written to by the many government representatives in that group, which is good. And also some of the issues remain that ‑‑ if ‑‑ I mean question, can ICANN impact the use of the domain name purposes, because domain is in a huge hierarchy things. And ICANN just dealing with the Top‑Level Domain. And therefore, the ‑‑ the entire Internet infrastructure then ICANN, there is a limited things that ICANN itself can do.
So that's ‑‑ that's a combination of two things, right? ICANN worked very effectively in terms of sharing the issues with other Government on this issue.
And they properly discussed. And I would like to thank the Japanese government to work ‑‑ has been working that way. And, you know, also the ICANN discussed on this. But then there is a limited things that I can do. But ICANN can do. Sorry. Not I can. And one more thing to add, is that again the ‑‑ piracy impact needs to be working together. So we need a legal expertise. And we need the international legal expertise. We need the thing. And then also the Internet service provider. So that's a reason why in Japan in order to deal with this issue, then we have a various places to discuss about that and the exchanging from the ‑‑ one of the examples is that we are having every three months, specifically for this subject, and CEO of the Internet service provider and the CEO of publishing company, having a breakfast together to be deported by people like police, what is the current state of decision. We are on the right process to work against that.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you. Thank you very much. And so I would like to ask you thoughts on our feelings for such efforts against piracy sites. And future of Manga at large. So first, Andi‑san could you start? I'm sorry, Nicole‑san could you start?
>> NICOLE ROUSMANIERE: Yes, thank you very much. You I feel that Manga is one of the really precious treasures of Japan. It is becoming worldwide. It is becoming really special. It need to be protected. Any art form that wasn't protected or sushi that wasn't protected and you can see what has happened to it new in the west. Manga can still be protected. And I think it should be become a registered in some sort of way. Manga artists, editors and publishers put their heart and soul in to creating content for us to enjoy. It is really, really time consuming. And if we are not going to pay for that content in a way it is like stealing their work. It is pretty ‑‑ it is just something that we need to stop doing. And I think that we need to stop doing it, there is ways of stopping all these Internet providers. But it is in a way like drug use. You have to stop with the users. You have to stop using pirate sites and you need to work towards that.
In 2025 I'm going to be curating a new Manga exhibition in San Francisco. And I'm hoping you will all support me in that. I'm hoping that by 2025 we will see a shift in Manga piracy and we will start to see that artists are being paid properly for their work. I'm going to address this topic in the exhibition as well. So I invite you all to come and see and. Hopefully there will be a good solution by then.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much for your enthusiastic opinions. We need to ‑‑ 2024 ‑‑ 2025 in San Francisco.
>> NICOLE ROUSMANIERE: April, too.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Yeah, I really, really be visiting you. And Andi‑san could you share you views on the content measures or the future of Manga?
>> ANDY NAKATANI: Yes. Of course. Very looking forward to that exhibit in San Francisco. Because being based in San Francisco. Being part of the publishing industry piracy has kind of plagued us for so long. And I'm never enthusiastic about public speaking. But being part of this panel was actually a great experience because just interacting with all the panelists is so encouraging to me that there is so much being done. So much research, so much expertise. Such great efforts happening. And I think as others have said, it's not just the people here. But also we ‑‑ it would be great if we can continue to get cooperation from the multiple industries involved in this.
So it's very encouraging to me.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. A long time ‑‑ from the Andi‑san's experience in the publishing industry, the last word is quite interesting. Hagio‑san could you share your thoughts?
>> MOTO HAGIO: Well, it is a small proposal I would like to make in the case there is a piracy and if there is a formal one. And we're expecting we will be able to receive royalty. Maybe some kind of a privilege or the special treatment should be provided. For example, the points should be provided. The voices of the artists should be added to express to appreciate and thank you. Some kind of a special gift or the special price should be given to the readers, formal readers. So if the readers read the books, be it the piracy of the formal one, but you might think it's better to receive the cheaper ones if the impression and the impact is the same.
But if you pay, if you pay as a user, there may be the paying on the part of the piracy readers. But there will be the paying if the royalty is not provide to the artist. So please think about it. Please use the formal route and channel to make the selection.
So it is the matter of your way of life. Make the decision in your life, reading the Manga, there is always justice in the world. This is something I learned from the world of Manga. There is justice. If you are impressed by reading the Manga, I hope that you will be able to pay for that impression and impact.
(Applause.)
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much for your opinion. And incentive to the readers of the version would be the ‑‑ yeah. We should think about that.
So anybody have any comments on the points raised? How about you?
>> JUN MUARI: Well, yeah, that ‑‑ I Moto Hagio's message is very strong. I'm very much moved. And being a big fan of Manga, not the Internet expert or anything and then ‑‑ I have been thinking about, you know, start dealing with this one, I was thinking about the music industry was also damaged by the Internet, sharing of music. By the way, this is a personal story, I'm sorry. But my mother is a musicologist. So she always told me when I was a kid, that music is a live music. And then the recorded music is basically the extension of that to outreach to the other people.
So the important thing is live the music. We're going to the live music. If this story is applying to the Manga, then ‑‑ so all the sharing of the music and if you like music, and you go to the live music concert or whatever, so that model is becoming pretty much successful for the music industry these days. And so after the Internet and then ‑‑ pretty much suffered by the Internet, and then they are coming back to the very active concert and theater type of thing.
So I have been wondering how the Manga is going to be. And the Manga is ‑‑ if you like Manga, if you understand Manga, Manga is a combination of the author, artist and then editor. And they are working together for the paper pointing art. There is a lot of new things coming in with the digital format and the new format thing. But the printed Manga is the origin of the art we are talking about this afternoon. If that is the case, then publishing companies should make a lot of efforts that inviting the people, I mean digital ‑‑ digitized printed Manga is different than digital digital Manga, the new format. So digitized Manga is basically the art of the printed Manga. Publishing companies should I'm asking, the publishing company to work on the ‑‑ continue to work with the region Manga artists and also the young, new coming artists for the format.
This is quite a format, I think Andi‑san and Nicole‑san has been working and outside the country also, the kind of value and they love Manga and lovers of Manga around the world. And so that's what they are working on.
So I really respect publishing companies' respect, I mean efforts to extend the value of the printed Manga to be digitized and then outreaching to the greater community of being friends of Manga.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. Yeah. Preserving the value, what is not being substituted by digital copies would be something worth to be considered, worth considering. So maybe there is a big hint within the right sense, yeah. Points. Please, Nicole‑san.
>> NICOLE ROUSMANIERE: What was saying was very important. Paper copy, we can read it in digital copies. But having the paper copy of Manga is incredibly important. It was a plea for us to continue looking at it from a museum perspective, it is the archival qualities. How you access digital content ten years ago is different from today. What will happen with accessing Manga 30 years from now, is important if we don't have paper today. This is a plea for paper. I would like to add my voice to that.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you for that. Andi‑san, any comments?
>> ANDY NAKATANI: Yeah. That's pretty much exactly our strategy with our streaming services to kind of create a large funnel. And attract readers, increase exposure of the Manga. And then kind of guide them to buy, to purchase the graphic novels, whether that is graphic novel or print. In the United States the print industry is still very strong. It is exactly what our strategy is.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. Okay. So if there is no further comments, then let's take the next 20 minutes or something for Q and A sessions.
Anybody with questions or comments, please stand in front of microphone. Already doing that. Thank you very much. Yeah. Please try to keep your comments or questions short, within say one minute. So that many people can speak. So the first.
>> AUDIENCE: I will try to be brief. It is not easy. I'm known as one of the founders of IGF. But I'm really here speaking as a life long Manga fan. That changed my life forever. And so I saw what the music industry, I saw the music industry doing the same meetings 20 years ago and they failed. So I'm afraid of doing the same mistake. Like the people that take the last issue of one piece and keep it. Many friends are doing piracy because it is the only way to get access to Manga. Eight months after the Japanese version. I wait for it. But many people don't want to wait eight months. Why can't you make it available in eight weeks or eight days. Today with technology you can make it available. One Manga can cost 1500 Yen. But maybe when they are 20 they will buy for Manga. It will be your customers of the future. So don't be hard on your friends. Go against the people who steal the money. But think of your friends and think of ways that you can be nice to them and be available in their language in timely manner. Thank you.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. We will take other questions and then answer at once. So please.
>> AUDIENCE: Thanks. So first, I just some clarifying question or comment here. We saw a lot in the presentation about the counter measure on piracy. What I didn't see is did you really try to understand why people try to access to pirated website? Because at the end it showed that there is a demand for that content. And I think for you need to learn about other experience. Because if we don't ‑‑ but all the artistic content, you have your neighbor in the west that it is succeeding. So maybe this is a question for here to think about how to improve that area.
Finally you talked about artists and the royalty. I want some clarification. Because unfortunately in Japan the industry doesn't have good reputation in terms of working condition for the artist and all those involved. So it is important to clarify how much they get at the end because you created that causality between the piracy and loss of revenue. If you can clarify how artists are earning and how you can improve their condition. Because at the end those who are making the Manga content that people are looking for. Thanks.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. And yeah.
>> AUDIENCE: Yes. Alexander, sports international and Russian party. I'm hearing in this audience on International Governance Forum discussing punishing end users. You are talking about users contributing to each other and it is against freedom of information, possibility to people to process it. After you start going, after users sharing their content, maybe previously bought you will start going after ones who are creating fan figs or went parodies and then you end the censorship system. I'm sad to say that I have to remind there is the 21st Article of Japanese constitution which guarantees Japanese citizens freedom of distribution of information.
Please try to distribute your information freely without blaming end users because again so‑called antipiracy actions could really start making censorship, start chasing girls who are using (?) That might be counterfeit. Thank you very much.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. So please.
>> AUDIENCE: Good afternoon, everyone. I'm a youth programme Delegate from Brazil. And I am here to make a point about accessibility and also reconsideration of some points exposed in the panel about regarding piracy. As other software fellows have introduced piracy is for us is a symptom of inequality, rather than a problem of greed.
So the strategies presented are very interesting. But they are ‑‑ they are considering access of the piracy consumer and as a matter of choosing free or taped. Many are not in a position to choose. I would like to reference Mrs. Hagio's example, very good example. And very touching presentation about why we should support the authors.
But, for example, $1,000 camera in my country is worth five months' the minimum wage in our country. They are definitely not buying the $1,000 camera. Although many can buy the $1,000 camera. I'm very fortunate to meet, key lessons. Though I only had access to it because I know English and I had a relative living in Europe at the time, they bought it in Europe and brought me to in English. My peers don't know English. They will never meet this issue because they ‑‑ there is no possibility. We translate roughly 500 brands of Manga, as in like months later, one piece. Roughly only 500 types of branding, new issues of the same Manga. So we're not expanding the translator market. And then piracy counting, people doing the work for free, they are fans and they know Japanese. We have a very burdened community, Japanese community in Brazil. At the publish online for free. And you have access to it. So I have a collection of Manga which I only gathered through my life, in my new opportunities in jobs. There is passion in translating the words for us to access.
There is relevance in importance in respect in trying to access such great content and such profound knowledge. But sometimes we have no options. And we resort to it. So my question is, consider the piracy might not be E terminated. Which actions are in place considering this problematic?
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you. So yes, please.
>> AUDIENCE: Hello. My name is Josarsto. I'm part of the Brazilian youth delegation and I love to learn about this exhibition that was displayed and well commented by Nicole. I would like to know if there are future plans to include awareness actions about Manga piracy at these exhibitions.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Okay. So the ‑‑ so we have already five questions and there are three more. So let's take this time to respond to the questions and comments so far. And so would you please wait a bit. So first there is a ‑‑ the difficulty to obtain new episodes. I think this is for Andi‑san to answer first.
>> ANDY NAKATANI: Question. If I may. So I think we are making efforts to put out more content. And with those streaming services that was on that ‑‑ the second slide that I had, different publishers are releasing more and more content. And I probably should have explained it a little bit more in detail. But, for example, Shone jump service releases chapters the same day they come out in Japan. And we were doing as many series we can. We are doing every single series that come out in the Shone jump magazine in Japan. And we release these chapters for free. The three most recent chapters are free. And then you pay a low price, it is $2.99 a month in American dollars for access to all the back chapters.
So we are trying to address putting out more content, making it easy access at a low price for more people to access. And then the other publishers are also doing the same thing with their streaming services. It is not comprehensive. But we are making efforts.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. And yeah, does anyone ‑‑
>> JUN MUARI: Yes. I care about that gentleman standing there. So yeah. You want to hear from him or ‑‑ it is too much?
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Yeah. I ‑‑
>> JUN MUARI: Another round. Then yeah, I just want to take kind of a two kind of technical end, IGF type of question.
May I? Okay. So the first one is thank you very much for all the questions. I think it is very much ‑‑ the reasonable question. And also the ‑‑ some of the important questions I need to address.
So, you know, the overpirate action, it is going to be kind of against the freedom of speech type of a discussion. And other thing. Which is ‑‑ and leading to a censorship and the overcensorship. This is a very important and serious issue always in a general ‑‑ in the history of Internet to address. So we are one of the areas ‑‑ I mean the multi‑stakeholder type of a discussion. When we started ICANN, then ICANN put the kind of Government advisory board, but then they ‑‑ all the other stakeholders can be kind of starting the discussion equally. Which is very much, you know, the format to address those issues. And different stakeholders had different voice. And listening to them.
So IGF is one of the place to understand that one.
So ‑‑ well, anyway, probably the balance of that kind of a business advantages on certain area of industry, and then also the listen to them is a very important. And then also the overcensoring situation should be avoided for the ‑‑ for the kind of ‑‑ more open Internet environment.
So that's probably a very important discussion. And then applying to this area about the discussion. But probably it is ‑‑ it is a ‑‑ it is a taking for the process in Japan for the Manga piracy. Another very interesting question from the lady sitting in there was accessibility question. And then ‑‑ it is a really important that the Manga used to be the ‑‑ comparing with the music industry, movie industry, the other industry, the Manga culture value was kind of late to start addressing to all over the world. So I remember in the middle of 2013, I visited the French Manga shop. And then the older books in Europe is kind of opened up this way. And then suddenly the Manga turned out to be a Japanese way which is different open from the right.
I was very much surprised that kind of those European funds of Manga accepting the basic culture things to address the Manga. And then I heard a story from the very, very famous sock soccer player from Spain, that he was talking about, you know, I started ‑‑ he is a big, big player. He said I started soccer from reading the Manga. But why the Japanese soccer player is a lefty. That's printed in reversal. So that power was recognized quite recently.
Therefore, the ‑‑ a lot of things, technical approaches happening for the accessibility of the Manga I believe. The Manga is now the language layer and then other drawing layer is separated in many of the Manga artists are utilizing the digital art tools.
And then ‑‑ so that replacement and then the multi‑language approach would be easier for the things. And then one of the reasons of pirate is going to be very much extending for kind of outreach was that translation of the language, yeah, has been very expensive. And not ‑‑ could not be provided by ‑‑ from the origin of the Manga publishers. So that's one of the examples that ‑‑ then you listen from the two people from the outside the country that they are making a lot of efforts. And then although the publishing company with Japan is working with them to address those issues of accessibility for the work.
So it is going to be a very important comment and a question. Thank you very much. And then the properly continuous approaches to the Japanese Manga space is going to be very much beneficial.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. And one such efforts includes Manga situation where the enriched Spanish tie in the nation for ‑‑ such language in 190 countries available for episodes 1, 2, 3, available, the latest three episodes are available online roughly. And then it is just information from our publisher.
And there was also a question about royalty rates for the Manga artists. And I can say typically it is 10% of retail price. So I think that that's a kind of standard here.
Is there any other? If so, there is a gentleman standing by. You first and then you, please.
>> AUDIENCE: Thank you very much. My name is Charlie from the international trade bank Association. Again I'm here as a fan, too. And I was very happy to see this session from the beginning in fact. Because intellectual property is something important to know properly. And to be honest I was a little bit puzzled from some of the comments of but it is as but it is our father of Internet here, Jun, I met 20 years ago in ICANN. It is good to look at all the different views. I think I blame ourselves as some of the people in the intellectual property field is not known. When you say fair use it is also when someone sees it for his own benefit, for learning. So it is not against the knowledge. It is part of the need to protect the owner of the copyrighted material. To be sure they gets his own royalty was mentioned with the publication and make the knowledge even more important.
And so ‑‑ it is just a comment. I have no special question. Just to thank you for what you have done here. And to tell you even in the '80s I used to attend many of these programmes that you showed by the way, even the older one. Even in the Arabic language in Jordan. It is available before the Internet even. Thank you.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. So please.
>> AUDIENCE: Hello. I will be quick, I promise. I'm Philippe. I'm part of the Brazilian youth delegation and I'm a Brazilian illustrator. My art since childhood has been influenced by Manga. The artistic power of Manga, many artists like me. However in my childhood the possibility of purchasing Manga was very restricted where I lived. So I read and was inspired bit the few titles that I could physically access at that time. New artists that will come from all over the world, which ways of distributing Manga online, when are we have so much piracy in countries that don't have platforms to access them in a legal way that develop values that already established artists and enhances artists to come.
>> AUDIENCE: My question is this. How much do you involve the youth in this fight against piracy? Because you know most of the pirates arise from our generation or maybe the following ones. And I would think that if us as imagination and following the ones who understand how much Manga is important, and might disappear as a cause, as a result of the piracy they would stand up as the first ‑‑ the against your fellow age group members and to share the same technologies as in the renewed technologies and everything. So how much are the youth and the coming generations involved in this fight?
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. And further ‑‑
>> JUN MUARI: Yeah. Well, yeah, thank you very much. As many of the youth, you know, participants on the IGF raise a voice which is good. And make very sure and I remember the software pirates was around. And then the other software users and the PC software users and game users, they ‑‑ there was a very much a youth people, youth people standing up and starting to work. A phrase that we don't ease illegally copied software. If we visit the booth of publishing company about the pirates, then they have very much attractive campaign for the other people, including the young people. So I think they would be kind of a very powerful supporter about this movement.
>> KENSAKU FUKUI: Thank you very much. And it is what I would like to say, so yeah, again thank you very much for your valuable questions and the insights. And so it is already 1614. So now it seems that we are running out of time. It is also ‑‑ we have a question online. But yes, this is one of the days ‑‑ again thank you for joining us for this session. And as Jun Murai said please visit booth No. 2 in the village. And Manga by 16 artists handed out.
And yeah, finally, give speakers and staff a warm hand. Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
>> MOTO HAGIO: Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
>> NICOLE ROUSMANIERE: Thank you very much.