The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> MODERATOR: Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us for the IGF open forum on ‑‑ Forum No. 71. Hopefully you're all at the right place. This is Respecting AI Rights and Digital inclusion through the G7 and the G20.
I'm just going to start off by speaking a little bit about the objectives of the session and a little bit of the AI driven and data driven context that we find ourselves in but as we find these data driven technologies rapidly becoming purpose ‑‑ digital infrastructures infusing contemporary economies and civic spaces or at least hopes of it being able to do so for many of our countries, global cooperation is required more than ever to mitigate not only the heightened risk of existing inequalities but also ensuring the better distribution of the opportunities that are associated with these advancing technologies.
Despite growing attention from multi lateral forums such as the G7 and G20 policies as has been shown through the GDC policies and AI governing humanity work done through the TIC office global majority countries are often excluded from meaningful participation and particularly multistakeholder participation in these processes. These are the countries most impacted by AI driven change and processes that are emerging formally within the UN but of course also through the emerging economies leadership of the G20 of the last three or four years.
I think very importantly from the Indian G20 process we've now got the legacy of digital public infrastructures which has emerged as a critical area of governance that will require more integrated data governance and in order to get the optimal outcomes and deal with post pandemic social reconstruction that many of our countries continue to be dealing with in an increasingly volatile geo political situation and in some ways make us feel forever away from achieving sustainable development goals.
For our session we are hoping that we have a lively discussion here and urge you all to step up around the table. We won't make you answer any questions. Just you're welcome to listen, welcome to participate. There will be opportunities to do so and we look forward to that and we're hoping that from this we can feed into processes that are trying to leverage the leadership within the G7 and within the G20 over the past few years and bring some of these processes together in terminates of addressing these big global challenges we face. We're going to be from insights from Brazil. Very successful leadership of the G20 and certainly mainstay in the digital transformation agenda from India Brazil and of course South Africa.
I think they will be joining us ‑‑ there they are.
So we have a wonderful set of panelists with us. I'm going to ask them when they first speak to in the international relations or policy side or where precisely you fit in but just for your affiliations at the moment, we have Allison Ben. I'm not sure if I've got that quite right who's the director of international communication and Internet policy innovation, science and economic development of Canada. A lot on your plate.
Then we have Linde deputy director general in department of communications in the government of South Africa and we have Eugenia Garcia, directer of science technology innovation intellectual property at the ministry of foreign affairs.
Thank you so much for joining us. And then we've got Sabanas who's also the coconvener of this session and will be speaking I'm sure after me to address the G7.
I'm going to start right away by asking Sabanas, please go ahead and speak to us about the potential of the G7 to be leveraged with G20.
>> Sabanas: Thank you Allison. Good morning, everyone. I am Sabana. I'm with the tech global institute. We are a Canada‑based not for profit that focuses on digital rights and policies for the global majority. So it's a really interesting place to be kind of, you know, seeing that developments in G7 closely follow G20 and how all of this fits into the priorities of the global majority communities that we serve around the world.
I think I'll just start off by saying that Canada has really inherited the G7 ‑‑ there's a bit of an echo on the side I'm not sure but has inherited G7 residency from the Italian chairship. At a time when really the world is facing a number of different challenges obviously the geo political situation, seeing cuts from the not for profit sector and civil society rights around the world, seeing increasing trust deficit between the global majority and many of the western allies and we're seeing an increasingly this move towards tech sovereignty that open Internet we are all working for here today keeping that context in mind senior FELLOW T7 cochair but speaking here on behalf of TGI. I think there's a couple of different priorities we see the G7 presidency can really champion that would really bring together the various equities that we see around the world today. I think the first one that's really important from a nonstakeholder perspective would be data flow with trust. This is really building on the Hiroshima principles from several years ago but currently in the world today because of the increasing pressures of whether it is, you know, the race to the bottom for AI or this need to establish sort of national boundaries on how we think about data, data ownership, data rights, we're seeing a movement where increasingly having localized data centers, localized data framework, governance frameworks becomes increasingly more popular often at the expense of the free open Internet. And so all ‑‑ currently there really isn't, you know, whether some principles here and there, there really isn't a strong global multi lateral agreement around data flow with trust. There has been different models that have been quite fragmented but I think ‑‑ and we believe that in terms of just building on what we saw with the process Canada really has a strong opportunity to be able to pull together a multistakeholder process in which we codevelop shared principles for data flow across geographies, across region, different kinds of economies and build towards a trustworthy transfer framework that could really speak to the open interoperable and free Internet that we all care about.
And this really is kind of grounded on what I want to emphasize is oftentimes we think about data flows it really gets tied to international security and privacy but I think Canada with its position really has the opportunity through its G7 presidency to be able to move forward with also a data flow with trust framework that's grounded in international human rights law so kind of combining privacy, national security, lawful access of data, which is underpinned by strong international human rights frameworks.
So second one on that sort of list of priorities is really around democratic oversight of public infrastructure. And that really ties in the G20 sort of priorities under digital public infrastructure. Increasingly again we are seeing a lot of shift towards ownership of local infrastructures or increasingly where infrastructure is owned by the broad private sector oftentimes they're not prioritizing public interest. I think this is also recommendation from the T7 community from CG is really focusing on the kind of reimaging or bringing together the public sector not only as a regulator but also a market Sharon and in that way beginning to think through what does a decentralized infrastructure look like, what does infrastructure with trust look like and an infrastructure that really can tackle concentration of ‑‑ concentration of power but at the same time builds in this public interest element in a strong democratic oversight.
And third and last one I think we are prioritizing and we hope the G7 presidency prioritizes is really around targeted investments that really looks into AI building, AI capabilities, particularly through a very regional and sectorial level interventions. And by that what we're looking at is really for the Canada presidency to center digital inclusion as one of its key pillars. Again this was also recommend through the T7 but as a key pillar in which we're trying to understand that not all countries in the world are on the same stages of AI development. But then what does a targeted investment in this particular space look like that builds towards these shared principles of privacy, of human rights, of, you know, sort of trust across the governance ecosystem? And kind of really underpinning this ‑‑ these investments in strong multistakeholder processes and consultations where we can see communities that have historically been left behind to become part of this overall global change. And I think Allison also raised key points about AI being ‑‑ and AI offers great opportunities but also can be a great amplify digital divide. This is key area where strong targeted investments both in terms of building out whether it's regional coalitions or regional sort of multi lateral processes or it is looking at specific sectors, for example, health and agriculture, which has tremendous opportunity to be accelerated through AI and making investments that are very much looking into the needs of the developing world and is able to bring together various priorities. And so those are some of the areas where we see a lot of opportunity for the G7 to work together with the G20 given those are shared principles and shared areas of priorities and I hope we can discuss more of this as well at this panel.
Thanks over to you.
>> Thank you so much. I'm going to speak a little bit about the south African T20 process but also just to say that research ICT Africa which I'm the executive director and represent here is also a knowledge partner to the department of communications and digital technologies who lead the digital economy working group and the AI task force on governance data innovation and sustainability. So have been very much seized with South Africa's themes during the presidency of equality solidarity and sustainability. These are longstanding themes on the continent. They're very central to our African agenda 2063 and of course digital transformation strategies as well.
I'm going to, of course, leave Melinda to speak to the specifics on the G20 agenda but just to speak about the integrated digital transformation strategy that we have been following with G20 or we have been involved with the G20 which has really tried to consolidate the emerging economy leadership of the G20 and really take forward from each G20 these important aspects that are somewhat ‑‑ you know come with a different lens on some of those issues.
Just very quickly to speak to some of these important cross cuts that you have on free flow of trust and fragmenting Internet and these sorts of things. Very interesting discussions obviously there's no consensus on these sorts of things but certainly a number of the policy briefs these G20 and T20 under Brazil so much so that data was proposed as a major initiative coming out T20 and C20 actually for D20 seems to be so significant. The T20 agenda very much shadows the G20 agenda, digital inclusion transformative DPI. Another category that Melinda focus of the digital ‑‑ does come up in digital inclusion quite strongly in policy briefs and one on enhanced technologies and specifically AI. And I think just looking ‑‑ bringing this lens that we've had starting with the Indian presidency with a focus not only on DPI but strong focus on data development and what that meant in that context. And bringing together some of the development debates and some of the data debates which have largely when we speak about the cross border flows and flow with trust that these are very often conceptualized in of course international human rights but within frameworks that have been focused very strongly on first generation and fundamental rights on very individualized notions of privacy and not adequate tension to the collective and systemic harms that result from this primarily and in Africa with over half the population not online primarily from exclusion. So if the equitable ‑‑ you know, the digital inclusion component both in the G20 and D20 has been a strong emphasis on looking at the extensive evidence we have but this is no longer if we're just talking digital inclusion, talking about the digital economy at the whole which obviously needs advanced technologies in order to flourish but if we're looking at digital inclusion for purposes main constraints we're finding actually on the demand side. Not just about inclusion, equitable inclusion not about people being on tiny bits of data but actually being able to transact and even be productive and I think that's come up strongly in our continental frameworks come out in our policy briefs certainly from African scholars and contributors researchers to that process. That obviously requires a whole lot of policy interventions that have to go beyond infrastructure we need to look at.
Just in terms of the ‑‑ returning to the free flow of trust because data has been a crosscut, policy for DPI very strongly, the focus there both I think it was in the G20 but also in the T20 and during I think the T20 from previous work has been about extending the focus on sort of techno legal infrastructures to really understanding, you know, the potential of DPI in terms of public value creation, badge the focus and the shift historically on sort of supply side infrastructural values of resources to looking how we can get to more demand side evaluation and allocation of resources that would produce public goods and make these infrastructures useable by the vast majority if we just implement them right now are not going to be able to use them. That requires us to engage. There have been exciting engagements around things that have already been accepted in the G20 before but really relocated ‑‑ the presidency has been very committed to this is an African thing unfortunately our AU representative wasn't here today but lead ago lot of the project because very strong data policy frameworks, speak to redistribution, very much to justice and they highlight that you do not get ‑‑ if you have free flow with the current status quo we do not have the environments equitably trustworthy on either side and at the moment the free flow of trust ‑‑ let's say we don't have trust we have 70 percent of traffic going out continent and only 30 percent of data coming in. We need mechanisms that will really allow us to address some of these uneven impacts from the harms point of view but also address some of the very uneven opportunities and so in in context a lot of interesting policy briefs around, you know, regulating access to regulating access to compute and of course the important aspect you raised of capacity building not only from data scientists, not only from coding and stem but for institutional capacity building regulatory capacity new complexities we need to deal with with existing regulators and the need to integrate them. So thank you for letting my wrong ramble go on probably a little longer than it should have there.
But let me quickly go to Allison and ask you, Allison to speak about the priorities emerging around the digital technologies and some of the DPI issues we have been speaking about that have also come out of your most recent meeting.
>> Absolutely. Thanks so much. Thanks and as my fellow Allison just noted so I'm Allison O burn and director for international telecommunications and Internet policy in the government of Canada's department of innovation science and economic development. It's the industry department. I'm very pleased to be able to speak on the panel today. I think this is a very engaging discussion already. For having that long discussion around the T20 process I saw you were not using notes for that. That's just all right front and center in your mind which is very impressive to me and I think speaks to a level of passion around the work for sure. Maybe I could talk a little bit about as you noted some of the key priorities that have been emerging in the G7 context around digital technology and governance and particularly Artificial Intelligence. I think I'm at a distinct advantage. Regrettably over our colleagues and this meeting has already happened. I at least get to speak to some of the points of consensus arrived at which I know is more difficult when you're still in the planning process. I do think there are a number of priorities that came up particularly in the context of Artificial Intelligence within Canada's G7 presidency this year where we see some particular linkages to South Africa's G20 presidency and more broadly to conversations that are happening this week and elsewhere around equity and inclusiveness in the digital space which I think is really valuable. The G7 and G20 will probably always approach these things with slightly different angles or approaches but I think there are links between the ways we are thinking about technology and how to ensure that technology has equitable benefits to all people. In terms of Canada's G7 presidency and particularly where we've seen some of the evidence on digital policy pieces a lot of emphasis this year on AI and promoting economic prosperity for small and medium enterprises. Ensuring folks have skills talent resources to be able to effectively commercialize, adopt or effectively develop AI solutions that provide significant benefits to consumers to clients. There's certainly an emphasis on building resilient future workforces as well. So in the skills development sort of realm to prepare workers for AI driven transitions there were discussions this year at the G7 leader's meeting as well around energy challenges as it relates to AI. Two different angles both the challenges presented from AI from environmental and climate perspective but also AI's potential role in helping us to provide solutions two different angles on that and I would note as well as part of the G7 leadership establishment there was a specific commitment to engage in and develop partnerships and cooperation particularly with emerging economies and developing countries. A real focus on ensuring as we're developing technologies at home in Canada in G7 countries we're also looking for mutually beneficial partnerships that allow us to ensure the benefits are felt at just in G7 nations but also in emerging economies in those developing countries as well. We have been obviously very pleased to see for South Africa the president of G7 this year highlighting the challenges that by global majority in building resilient AI ecosystems, particularly challenges related to we discussed infrastructure supply side challenges but also demand side challenges like AI talent access to data free flow research all those people have been figured out in tandem in order to build these resilient ecosystems. Top of mind as well as noted at the G7 leader summit. And we've also as Canada particularly strongly engaged on digital economy working group on the AI task force through the G20 and particularly giving consideration to how our own Canadian initiatives can support things like AI for Africa initiative technical assistance policy facility how we can ensure we are engaging in a way that allows us to take the kind of expertise and resources that we have and apply those to international systems and multistakeholder systems that then provide those benefits kind of more equitably in the world.
I do think that's going to be at the heart of G7 and G20 in the coming years particularly on on digital policy is ensuring we leverage these international processes that we leverage our multi lateral processes to be able to identify sort of consensus joint initiatives but likewise that we leverage multistakeholder forums to do that too that we bring in not just governments but businesses, academia, civil society to ensure that we are taking as we say this equitable approach to really advancing digital inclusion.
>> Thank you so much, Allison. I'm hoping we can come back and a number of interesting points. I'm sure Lindy you want to follow on.
Why don't you tell us a little bit about both G20 digital economy working group and the AI pillar in there, of course the DPI pillar as well and then the AI tasks force.
>> Thank you, Allison for that question. I think we have to recognize that, you know, as we join the G20 taking the president of the G21 members in terms of the economy and G20 but also there are some challenges that we are facing which includes like youth unemployment, you know, digital exclusion and some barriers to innovation. If we bring in these to the global digital discourse especially on the areas of digital governance, AI and inclusive development I think we can achieve quite more on that. But also listening to my colleague from Canada I believe that there are some of you know the shared initiatives that, you know, the values that we can actually work around in terms of, you know, some of these processes as well as processes are not really aligned or not institutionally designed to align to each other but I think there are some common themes we can work around.
Just go through, you know, our G20 presidency, Ulandi Exner ‑‑ it's guided by our three pillars which is sustainability and equality but also these pillars they end up being the agenda for digital economic working group where we have placed the emphasis on digital inclusion rights respecting AI governance as well as the DPI if you look to the digital inclusion see there is a foundational challenge we need to make sure we address. From the areas of the WSIS process we've known the power of digital technologies to transform the lives of our economies but unless we address the cause of the device in detail local content the gaps in digital skills as well as inequality in education each using technologies will deepen the existing divide. We need action in innovation on the areas of AI as well as DPI. Otherwise if we don't address those, we'll find that we anticipate, you know, the digital divide already there.
That is why then as a country in presidency we are prioritizing the areas of investment in the digital public goods, which is the meaningful and affordable connectivity, the public infrastructure platforms as well as the digital identity systems that empower the individuals not just systems, but we see that, you know, these enablers ‑‑ these are the enablers of human rights, economic opportunity, as well as, you know, the democratic participation.
When it comes to AI governance, you know, our priorities to ensure that the systems are inclusive. This means that we have to protect privacy safety as well as integrity but also promote representative datasets to mitigate bias and discrimination and is one of the areas that we have been talking about, you know, even on the other panels in this process that if we have to mitigate we need to make sure that all the digital inclusive of all of the demographics in the country as well as the continent but also we're working on ensuring that we recognize details of public good and expanding the credible access for researchers as well as you know the local innovators and I know that it is one of the areas normally a bit of a context because when you look on the private sector players Ulandi Exner find that they see the government details the source of innovation but what we are seeing here is that data both if he private age as well as the public generated data needs to be the source of public good and be used responsible to drive innovation.
But also working on the areas of building capacity across the infrastructure, pipeline as well as AI research. It's one of the areas also if you were to look in the complete capability as a country and also as a continent you find that we're still lagging behind on that one. One of the areas we would like to advance in terms of our presidency as well to make sure this fundamental infrastructure is there and can actually assist us.
But also as I draw to the close, so we continue to work on the DPI started by the Indian presidency which is emphasizing when the inclusive interoperable systems open standards as well as governance that both enables innovation and also protects the public interest. So we also believe that, you know, the scope is for the scope forum collaboration is there because if we are to look on the members of a G7 they are also the members of the G20 and I think we can exchange best practices aligned approaches especially when it looks on the areas of AI and data governance, but also look on how we can, you know, advance, you know, like the majority system like digital ‑‑ global digital compact. But most importantly, I think we must also committing to amplify the voices of the global majority, not as ‑‑ but cocreate as in the digital norms and also shaping our shared future.
Thank you, Allison.
>>
>> Thank you so much, Lindy. I'm very keen to take up the points made by both of you, Allison and Lindy on potential for cooperation with the G7 leveraging both those processes to take both processes forward.
Before we come back to ‑‑ before we come to that, I'm going to ask you, Garcia about the legacy ‑‑ the G20 Brazilian legacy that very much I think we're committed to and building on but also to speak about how we ensure that, you know, I think regardless such a successful presidency how do you make sure those legacies continue that you are able to continue to forge the progress made and the gains made in these multi electoral processes going forward once the president is over.
>> Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Thank you for the invitation. I think one of the first challenges that we face when in the beginning of our presidency of the G20 last year was to define the priorities, especially for the digital economy working group within the G20, and we talk about this with our Indian colleagues because they did an amazing job in terms of bringing DPI into the discussions of 20 and we both shared in the similar concerns and of course in Brazil we are trying to improve digital public services, et cetera. And ‑‑ but our approach was always trying to see how developing countries can make a meaningful contribution in digital technologies. So we decide in the end that four priorities would be our suggestion as the Brazilian presidency of G20.
The first universal and meaningful connectivity, because an old issue but we still have many digital divides. 1/3 of the world's population is still offline. So asking about global south countries it's true there's a lot we need to do.
This one was one of them. The second DPI. We were also convinced that this was an important issue and nice to have some at any time with the Indian presidency with the Brazilian.
Next, information integrity. This was new. We didn't know exactly how all the members would react f we would reach consensus or testing the waters information integrity in the digital domain. It was the first time this issue was put to the table in 20 and we were successful because we reached an agreement in the ministerial meeting held around in Maseo which was September last year. You can also download the Maseo from the ministers that you see the language adopted on information integrity. I think it was also important and we were successful in this regard and the fourth priority is AI. We see AI as an opportunity to boost development towards a more equitable future, foster innovation, enhancing productivity, sustainable practice and concretely improving the lives of people everywhere on the planet. And of course to achieve this global goal of AI should mitigate potential risks and address the needs of all countries including from the global majority. So this was more or less the idea that AI should be development oriented and contribute to reducing inequalities. It was a basic approach and proposed during the presidency the creation of AI task force. Glad to see we have the task force thriving during the south African presidency. I think this in temples of lessons learned this is ski because we need to first ensure a smooth transition and we ‑‑ between the presidents because happy coincidence because from India, Brazil and South Africa, I think you might remember an issue called IPSA dialogue forum was created in 2003 to promote cooperation, entire group bringing together India, Brazil, and South Africa precisely. Three large developing countries, all democracy and from three different con covenants. Also sharing similar concerns and challenges. Especially in terms of the global digital ecosystem. This helped a lot for this smooth transition because when we finish our presidency our minister in Brazil received south African delegation decided to share our experience with them and see how we could guarantee some of the issue that we brought would also have continuation and I think we were both successful as well. But for this to happen we need political will. What about the follow‑up from these discussions within the G20 regarding all the international organizations or international initiatives? Because after G20 now this year we had with the presidency of the bricks in the Brazil. And we also brought AI as a key point to discuss within the bricks brought from this experiencing in 20. Of course they ask completely different groups but our approach was basically the same that AI should be development centered. And another point is that also we have COP30, the first ever in the Amazon rain forest. When we say information integrity, we will in beginning trying to understand the possible reaction for G20 members but in the meantime we were in conversation with the UN secretary in particular the department of global communications and UNESCO. And when we have the summit in Rio we launched a global initiative addressing climate change. You see, they have the connection between Digi 20 and COP30. I think connecting these dots you need to make a conscious decision to ensure not only a smooth transition, continuity and having the political will to follow‑up in a very concrete way. So this global initiative only formation has been launched. Now we are working with a call to action, road to Belan where the COP30 will be held. I think this was very helpful in general we are very happy with what South Africa is doing in terms of moving forward with these topics including in terms of the digital economy working group of the G20. I stop here.
>> I'm sure you want to pick up on some of those points but I'm going to go to the room ‑‑ go forward to the room. I think the important point that you made that ‑‑ or Lindy made first that we had to kind of pare down or ambitions maybe not ambition so much but what we could achieve there's a more limited agenda and one of the things I think sort of went to everybody's regret but I think information integrity issue. It's just been so overwhelming it's come up anywhere and again in these crosscuts there is a focus on generative AI and deep fakes from member states but really picked up the issue of information integrity although not formally on the agenda. So I'm sure we want to pick up some of those discussions but I'm going to ask you to respond to questions in the floor or online and then also do those responses to each other.
Please. Let's start with the room.
Who would like to ‑‑ yes.
>> Can you hear me?
>> Yes.
>> This has been a really interesting discussion so far. I have more insight into the G20 process. It's good to know a lot of synergies not just between the G20 presidencies but between the 20 and seven. I was wondering if you're aware of any points of contention between these two processes and if you could speak to those and how we can address them? Thank you.
>> Thank you so much.
Right. Maybe we can do the online.
Can the online moderator hear me?
>> Hello, yes.
>> Hi. Have you got any questions for the panel?
>> No, we do not have any online questions yet.
>> All right. Well, we'll just take that one question from the floor but please indicate ‑‑ or let's ‑‑ we've got another one from the floor. And then while people are responding if there are anymore from the floor or online please let me know.
>> I'll the sole questionnaire here.
I'm a doctorate student from Iceland studying how very large platforms are undermining democracy with AI of course playing a large role in that. What I have found in my studies is there seems to be a lot of gaps between high level discussions and policies and our aims and practicalities. I have 30 years working experience in IT. So getting the input, training the people, integrating into computer science courses, et cetera, how are we sort of meeting the industry? Meeting the people who are actually going to execute our policies? How would you recommend going about that? Where can we put our efforts where we get the most out of our efforts?
Thank you.
>> Thank you so much.
Another question from the floor.
>> Thanks. My name is Lisa from research ICT Africa.
My question is about the continuity of presidency from one country to another in the G20 as well as synergies. South Africa's presidency comes after four global south presidency and I'm curious about what are those concerns from the global south that have been taken from the first global south presidency complete leadership from the global south and now south African presidency. Also tied to that what new agendas or concerns is South Africa putting forward to the G20 given not only global south presidency but also African presidency.
Thanks.
>> Thank you so much for that question. Perhaps if we could add one question to that expect it to come from the floor but maybe also for us to address is obviously in terms of the processes of the G20 and G7 we have this strike format these bodies don't exist. They're not standing bodies. They have to be reconstituted each time. This provides some of this continuity we spoke about can be so politically important in terms of continuity but also of course can present issues if there's not alignment and I suppose a tricky time to be doing this multi lateral work because of its enormous dependency on cooperation and common values and those things. So perhaps just in your little time just to in your responses maybe it was to speak about the importance of the G7G20 collaboration in this geo political contention.
Allison, ask you to start off again.
>> Of course. I think the first question was whether there were points of contention between the G7 and G20. No, never. I'm kidding.
[LAUGHTER]
>> I think as we think about the sort of various questions that represented points of contention between G7 and 20 how we ensure a level of continuity across presidencies in either group and how we enter a level of continuity between the G7 and G20 I would say a couple of different things about that. One is that I think and it's easy for me to say this, governments have an enormously difficult challenge when they face the presidency of either the G7 or G20 because there's a significant amount of pressure internally within the government both to deliver new sort of hallmark initiatives so to kind of put your own stamp on the presidency and deliver something that stands out unique and brings something new to the group while also having a continuity you don't want to wipe the slate clean and start over again. You end up in this real challenge if you went on forever you could have an ever expanding agenda of different items to discuss and it just becomes too messy and sometimes you kind of have to trim things back. That is always the challenge I think a new presidency faces when you're ‑‑ either in the G7 or G20 context.
Some of the pieces that are really helpful with that, or maybe one thing I would really point to that's enormously helpful and sometimes helpful in the scary way for governments is multistakeholderism which is to say that I think when you're a government and trying to decide what pieces of a previous presidency or what pieces of alignment between G7 and G20 really need to be the focus of your agenda in addition to new hallmark initiatives you're thinking of when you're thinking about where that continuity needs to come one of the places you really look is to the stakeholder community. If you have pieces from previous presidency or pieces from the G20 and in G7 context or you see there's a strong response from stakeholders either responsive or negative it helps to you situate yourself and understand what is going to resonate with an external audience beyond those kind of policymakers and the government sector essentially. I think so it also gets to the very important question that one of the folks in the audience asked today asked about how do we link that from the policy space to the implementation space? These G7 statements can be quite high level and sometimes quite general. It's beautiful to have these sort of big policy aspirations but then how in reality do we implement those things and I think that is also some of the answer to that question is we then look to where we're seeing outcomes from whether it's previous presidencies or new ones that really resonate with the community because gives us indication pessimisms we can use and partners to actually implement those ideas so they don't just remain ideas and statement but actually become practical implementable policies.
>> Thank you so much. I think probably to build on there. Sumeaila to give us an indication if any questions come on‑lie but I'm going to get some responses from the questions on here.
Lindy would you like to respond and of course to your panelists as well.
>>
>> Thank you, Allison. I think if we can start on some of the questions especially the one that came with the.
>> I think one of the things we see is sometimes, you know, as policymakers and, you know, when you look on the people on the ground you find that there is a bit of a joint, you know, to how we normally do things and there is a level of public participation on some of these processes and it's important that as policymakers we start to go to the communities so that they understand and, you know, how we try to get to decisions and I think so from presidency I've seen how some of the private sector players have been coming to observe, you know, the work that we do and to see how we normally try to get knew know a particular declaration and how hard it is to try to get into sole litigation. It's one of the things I think we need to start doing but also in terms of, you know, what my colleague from Canada, you know, mentioned, you know, in terms of, you know, the community that there are some areas of impact that you would like to see as your particular president say from G7 and sometimes it finds it becomes a little bit difficult to continue with the continuity sometimes but sometimes Ulandi Exner find that you can try to, you know, push through some of the areas but I think in terms of the continuity, I think one of the areas that we can actually look into is to look on the broader aspects, you know, and if we are look to both on G7 and G20, you know, if we see the areas that we can build multi initiatives that each and every president will continue while you might have some different initiatives you like to achieve I think that will work and Ulandi Exner find most of the work will continue the other presidencies as well. But also find this way that we're doing it goes to the other global platforms as well that doing the explanation capacity. So I think if you feed the statements towards the implemented platform I'm sure try to advance initial value as well as multi stakeholders as well. I'll end there, thank you.
>> Thank you so much.
Virginia, perhaps we can get a quick response from you.
>> Thank you. Yes, I think for improving relations between G7 and G20 we need to explore areas of convergence first of all because particular in this year political environment at international level became more complex let's say that with glowing polarization or idealogy divide so ‑‑ and you see that president Lula was invited to attend the G7 in Canada and he brought this message because ‑‑ it's easier said and done of course. Let's cooperate but since we are hosting Kopp 30 climate change is one of the issues that he brought to the table in terms of consisting ability and globally but also energy security and all this challenge need cooperation. If you are able to see how the G7 and G20 can coordinate better converging areas where we can have a create initiatives or perhaps discuss being at least on the same page really essential for all of us I think that's the way we should try always move in that direction.
>> Thank you so much. Sumela do we have any online questions.
>> Yes, there is one from Jameson. It reads we heard the need for decentralized DPI and Allison need for multistakeholder statement and often find open source software can help. Would love to hear your reflections on the role of open source our digital public goods for cooperation and DPI.
>> Such a big question. I'm going to ask Shavanaz to respond and everybody if there is time if we can keep it ‑‑ just ask everybody if they want to quick comment.
>> Thank you. It is a very big question but I think increasingly one of the ways DPI has obviously become increasingly important across the G20 but across other forums we're also discussing quite a bit about DPIs. And increasingly the promise of DPI moving from private to public space and reimaging governments as not just recognize but also shapers of market. I think there's a real opportunity there but in terms of open source DPI is the fact that it's not a ‑‑ there's really a lot of opportunity in terms of open source and different elements. For example whether it's going to be the underlying code, whether it is to switch some parts of the data but I think the real promise of DPI to be able to lean on really a long legacy of open code principles in terms of ensuring that full fill its promises in terms of being a truly public ‑‑ truly be able to tackle the market consolidation.
>> Thank you. Panelists starting with Virginia if you want to have one last comment please go ahead.
>> If we can keep it to 30 seconds.
>> I think as I said we were happy to have India Brazil and South Africa in terms of cooperation also securing this moving transition I mentioned it was essential. Hope we can learn from this experience as a group and also help others for the next of the G20 and also be creative but also fostering cooperation that we need right now to address some of these global challenges.
>> Allison, please.
>> Maybe two quick points. One is to echo what I think you jean was talking about in his previous responses and mean for G7 and G20 both together and in their distinct forums to focus on areas of convergence I think it speaks to the need to recognize these groups have a fundamental role in really reflecting our underlying humanity the places where we all come together things like climate change, digital infrastructure, where we might be affected as countries in different ways but where we all have equities and all have to really work collaboratively in order to solve those with an election and Canada. There's more to culminate on G7 presidency. Got ministerials through the fall and some interests work I'm sure will be coming up in the coming months.
>> It's been an interesting six months around globally. Lindy.
>> I think on my side I just want to emphasize, you know, the need, you know, to advance, you know, the digital governance as well as AI and to understand that these are not just issues and challenges they are fundamental about the inclusion equity as well as said responsibility and also the choices that we make today will shape, you know, our future generations but also from the G7 and G20 I think it's important we build an open space as well as people centered digital world that leaves no one behind. I think these processes can work together, you know, to challenge some of the deeper challenges of the world.
Thank you.
>> Thanks so much.
>> I think I want to point ‑‑ multistakeholder processes. We as not for profit, civil society think tanks are able to work across different processes and we have been part of the G20 process from the India presidency we have been part of the Asia early BRICs conversations and now the G7. I think leaning on your multistakeholder allies, nonstate stakeholders are really a powerful way of building that convergence across different kinds of processes and finding ways because we live in this complicated geo political moment to find those commonalities across humanity.
>> Thank you so much. I think we've ‑‑ I'm not even going to try and sum up the very interesting conversation we've had here but I think there have been some very strong common themes around how we can leverage these multi lateral processes through multistakeholder participation to deal with this moment in time, this polly crisis that we are facing and between these different processes. Things happening between these processes as well to reinforce and make sure incredible gains periods they have existed particularly over the last period since Covid and during Covid and since Covid to deal with some of the crises we face at the moment.
So let's take that forward.
If you very much the audience.
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