IGF 2016 - Day 1 - Room 3 - WS 27 - WePROTECT: combating online child sexual abuse


The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Eleventh Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Jalisco, Mexico, from 5 to 9 December 2016. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 


>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Okay.  Good afternoon.  Thank you for joining us.  I'm Ernie Allen.  I'm going to chair this session.  Those of you who may be in the wrong room, this is the session, WePROTECT Combating Online Child Abuse with MSM.

Let me add before we begin, the IGF organizers have made it clear, that our goal today is to be brief in our comments so that we can hear from you.  We want this to be interactive, we want your questions, ideas, your involvement.

So, let me introduce why we're here and give you a sense of what WePROTECT is.

Clearly, the Internet has changed the world, overwhelmingly in positive ways.  But there is also a dark side.  It has also led to the explosion in the sexual exploitation of children online.

Prior to the Internet, someone with sexual interest in children felt isolated, alone, aberrant.  Today, he's part of a global community.  He can interact with people of like interest around the planet, they exchange images, they exchange fantasies, technique, even real children, and they do it all with virtual anonymity.

In December 2014, the then British Prime Minister David Cameron convened the first, WePROTECT Global Summit.  The Prime Minister called online child exploitation, "a major international crime of our age occurring on an almost industrial scale."  He called upon all of us to act together, saying, this is a global crime, it needs global action.

He launched WePROTECT, a global campaign to identify and review and remove child sexual material from the Internet, strengthen cooperation around the world to track down perpetrators, and build global capacity to address this issue online.

The UK also committed 50 million pounds to a new global fund to attack the problem.  Today, those funds are being used to target this problem in 17 countries and provide the foundation for the new global fund to end violence against children.  And you're going to hear more shortly about the impact those funds are having already.

The UK created a WePROTECT International Advisory Board.  I was honored to be asked to chair that board.  Joined by leaders of technology companies, civil society, law enforcement, and international organizations.

The new British Prime Minister, Teresa May, is continuing the UK's unprecedented leadership in this area, and I'm pleased to report that WePROTECT is working and that it's growing.  This year, as many of you might be aware, WePROTECT merged with the Global Alliance Against Child Sexual Abuse Online, which had been created by the United States and the European Union.

The goal was to create one strong unified voice on this problem worldwide.  And today, 70 countries have committed to this initiative, plus 20 technology companies, plus 17 major international organizations.

The WePROTECT Global Alliance is unique, in that it is taking a multi‑stakeholder approach to this problem, and it is the central element in the implementation of Sustainable Development Goal, 16.2, to end violence against children.

At our second WePROTECT Summit, held in October 2015,  Abu Dhabi, we are adopting and promoting a national response.  We have about 30 copies of that for any of you, after this session, who would be interested in it.

But the strategy behind the Model National Response is so to support countries in developing a comprehensive, multi‑stakeholder approach to ending online child sexual exploitation.

The vision is not that everyone will go back to their countries and implement the Model National Response.  It is more a guide.  It is a result of many years of expertise and practice.  It is an intent to give every country a framework to assess what it is doing in addressing the issue of online child sexual exploitation, to identify gaps and needs, and to prioritize national efforts that will make dramatic change in this problem.

The overall goals of the WePROTECT Global Alliance include creating the highest possible level of commitment in every country, improving the response to child sexual exploitation, ensuring effective successful investigations, convictions, and offender management, providing the best possible services and support for child victims, prevent child sexual exploitation in the first place, engage industry in developing solutions, and raise awareness among the public, professional, and policymakers.

WePROTECT has only just begun.  Here we are today to inform you, but more importantly, to ask for your help, your ideas, your advocacy, and your involvement.  We want to hear from you.  We want you to be a part of the WePROTECT Global Alliance, part of the solution to this problem.  We want to grow it far beyond 70 countries, 20 companies, 17 international organizations.

We've asked the members of our panel to speak to you briefly about the threat, the challenges, and how each sector can have the greatest impact.  We'll hear from industry, from civil society, and I'm hopeful that we will hear from law enforcement.  Our law enforcement representative has not yet arrived.

But let's begin with industry.  Jacqueline Beauchere is a member of the WePROTECT Board and is leading the effort to make our message and move worldwide.  Previously, she was a journalist and editor, she was a practicing attorney in New York and Washington, and for the past 15 years, she's served as the Chief Online Safety Officer for Microsoft.  I'm pleased to present a colleague on the WePROTECT Board, Jacqueline Beauchere.

>> JACQUELINE BEAUCHERE:  Thank you, Ernie, and thank you to the organizers at IGF to give us this opportunity to speak about WePROTECT and to discuss this important topic at this year's IGF.

Just a brief bit of industry scene‑setting, if I may.  Much like this vile material knows no boundaries and no country is immune from child sexual abuse material, no online service is immune either.

Technology companies, in the United States, we are legally obligated to report child sexual abuse material to the U.S. National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, or NCMEC, when we're made aware of this material on our services.

To give you an idea of the extent of the problem, in 2015, last year, NCMEC received a record 4.4 million CyberTipline reports of child sexual exploitation material globally, and this far exceeded the 1.1 million reports that it received in 2014.

If you took the prior 17 years that NCMEC had been in existence, that number of reports only numbered 2 million.  This year, to give you an idea as of September 2016, NCMEC has already received, an overwhelming, 7 million reports to its CyberTipline.

Technology companies prohibit child sexual abuse imagery and other illegal and inappropriate content on our services.  We make available tools to report this content to us and have policies and procedures in place for removing illegal content and reporting violators to authorities.

In addition, the technology sector can and does create innovative solutions to help curtail the spread of child exploitation and abuse, as Ernie mentioned.  One example, of course, would be the creation of Microsoft's PhotoDNA hash‑matching technology back in 2009.  This helps the industry to identify and remove these known images of child sexual exploitation and abuse.  Today, PhotoDNA is used by more than 70 companies and organizations around the world.

In addition, there have been several improvements made by major search providers since the WePROTECT Initiative took hold back in 2013.  We now make it next to impossible to use the open web to look for child sexual abuse imagery online.

Industry has committed, through the WePROTECT Global Alliance, to share best practices in content moderation to create and use image‑detection tools, technique, and other innovations, as well as, committed to sharing best practices around policy and awareness‑raising efforts.

As Ernie mentioned, we are part of the Model National Response.  And as part of that, industry must have the power and the willingness to block and remove child sexual abuse imagery from its online services and to proactively address child sexual abuse imagery at the local level.

Industries should also be proactively reporting online sexual abuse imagery to authorities.  Industries pillar within the Model National Response is closely aligned to many of the other, but the association with the underlying legal regime that is especially key.  Thank you, and I look forward to the remainder of the dialogue.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Thank you, Jacqueline.  Now, let's hear from civil society.  First, from a national NGO and then from a global NGO, Thiago Tavares is the founder and CEO of SaferNet Brazil and working to protect online human rights in Brazil.  SaferNet Brazil has conducted a national education campaign, promoting digital citizenship, e‑safety awareness, and much more.  And Thiago is also a board member of the Internet Steering Committee, CGI.

For his extraordinary work, he was the recipient of the Brazilian National Human Rights Prize, so I'm honored to produce, Thiago.

>> THIAGO TAVARES:  Thank you very much.  I'm very glad with the invitation to join you in this discussion.  I'm sure that it is a definitely a game change in against this worldwide.

Especially, because the WePROTECT is focused on developing countries, and I, as a former Hope Foundation President, I remember a map that we have, INHOPE, which is, INHOPE is the worldwide umbrella ‑‑ worldwide organization that works as umbrella for Internet hotlines and integrates the works of hotlines in 51 different countries.

And we look at that map, saw that almost 90% of the hotlines exist in the developing world.  And there is a lack, there is a gap.  Not sure for hotlines, but also helpline.  Focus on developing country, when we look at Africa, South America, Caribbean, Asia Pacific, there is a lack of hotlines and programs focused on protection of the child.

And WePROTECT is the first one with that.  And that's one of the reasons why WePROTECT is there for the game change.

And also, because the framework that WePROTECT proposes to national countries to deal with this child ‑‑ it's really comprehensive and respectable and basic pillar of the Internet Governance process that is the multi‑stakeholder involvement and the multi‑stakeholder participation of all actors.  In Brazil, we have 11 years working and responsible for national hotline, the helpline, and other.

On the helpline site, over the last 10 years, we received more than 200,000 calls from victims across the country asking for help and support for issues of revenge, cyberbullying, harassment, hate crime, and rights violations.

And these figures it should be addressed in a multi‑stakeholder way.  And we WePROTECT can reinforce those institutes, puts together in industry, international organizations like UNICEF, who is also doing fantastic work in Brazil.  And I'm very happy to see two very proactive federal prosecutors, and they are leading the law enforcement efforts in Brazil over the last 10 years.  They are visiting Sao Paulo ‑‑ they are based at the prosecutor office in Sao Paulo, and we're working together with them in their awareness program and developing a lot of activities across the country involving school educators and teenagers.

And all of that, it's some evidence that this program, it was designed to make change, and it will be a game change, especially in developing countries in the fight against it, and also the awareness and national legislations regarding those topics.

This is my few words, and I will say thank you so much for this opportunity to share these ideas with you, and especially an honor to have you.  Thank you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Thank you, Thiago.  We are hopeful that Colonel Freddy Bautista will come.  Obviously, he's been delayed.  If he does not arrive, we may actually ask the Sao Paulo prosecutors to talk about the extent of the problem and how you view it.

Let me now move to our second representative from civil society, Susie Hargreaves, Chief Executive Officer and central of this battle worldwide.  Adviser to many, including the American Telecommunication Union, UK Governments Forum, and many others.  And I'm, particularly, pleased to have the opportunity to tell you that in 2016, Queen Elizabeth presented Susie The Order of the British Empire in Leadership of our Time in Child Safety.  I'm honored to present another colleague on the WePROTECT Board, Susie Hargreaves.

>> SUSIE HARGREAVES:  Thank you very much, Ernie.  Thank you very much, everyone.  I'm delighted to be here.  I'm the CEO of the Internet Watch Foundation, one of the largest hotlines in the world.

And importantly, in terms of this fashion, I'm a member of the International Advisory Board of WePROTECT and absolutely committed to the aims and objectives and mission of WePROTECT.

So, I represent civil society.  The IWF is an NGO.  We're a self‑regulated body funded by around 130 Internet industry members.  They include some of the biggest companies in the world, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple.

And we also work very, very closely with law enforcement and government, but we're independent of them.  That means we can work very closely with technology companies and do what we can to use technology to achieve our mission, which is the removal and eradication of online child sexual abuse.

I was asked to tell you a bit about our perception of the threat, and I'm afraid there isn't a person in the world that can tell you how many images there are of child sexual abuse.

What we do know, is there are many, many, many images, and many, many millions of duplications of images.  And also, every day we see new images, so it's a constant fight and it's a constant ‑‑ you need to constantly remain vigilant and do what you can to remove those images.

What I can tell you is what we did last year, which is in 2015, the IWF removed 68,000 web pages, individual URLs, and each URL could have 1 or 1,000 images or videos on it.  Of those, about 70% were category A and B in the UK, that is how we classify child sexual abuse, ABC, and A and B, that's rape and sexual torture.  80% of the victims were girls.  And 69% were children aged under 10, and 3% of those URLs, that's 1,250 URLs with children age 2 or under.  That means our analysts are taking down images of videos for a day of children aged under 2.

So why are we members of WePROTECT?  Well, we're very, very happy and very pleased that in the UK we've been able to develop a very hostile territory for hosting child sexual abuse.  We adopted a multi‑stakeholder approach.  Everybody works together, civil society, law enforcement, the government, the industry, and we have a zero‑tolerance approach to remove it.

When we started 20 years ago, 18% of known child sexual abuse content was hosted in the UK.  Since 2004, that's been less than 0.5%.  Last year was 0.2%, so we're very pleased that we can remove content that was in the UK in under two hours.  But that's not the same in the rest of the world over, so it doesn't matter how good or quick we are at removing content in the UK.  We can't do it alone.  We have to work with other hotlines.  We have to work with other partners around the world to do everything we can to build a global multi‑stakeholder approach, and that's what WePROTECT represents.

I was also asked to tell you about the recommendations of the Model National Response and what civil society says, and all of us say that each country should try and tackle this problem.

The good news is there is lots of help and support to help you get there.  But in terms of removing and eradicating child sexual abuse, each one has to have its reporting mechanism to report child sexual abuse.  It may be that you need your own hotline, and if you do, you can get loads of support and help from the INHOPE Foundation to set up your own hotline.  Or do what 16 countries have done with the IWF, which is establish a reporting portal to take reports in your country, and they can come through to us, and then we can do our work to get that content removed.

You also need to do awareness‑raising with your partners.  And again, the role of civil society is hugely important in this.  Run an education program because it's just about taking down the images, it's about online education and getting people safe and looking at them and making sure that they understand the risks and build their digital resilience.

And finally, you need to develop support systems.  In the UK alone, the police publicly now say at least 100,000 people, at any one time, are looking at child sexual abuse.  That's not unique to the UK.  That is in any country, regardless of where it is hosted, people will be looking at this.  We need to approach and attack the behavior as well.  We need to put mechanisms in place to have places for people to go if they're worried about their online behavior.

Finally, I just want to reiterate the importance of the multi‑stakeholder approach.  The importance of civil society working together, so that means working with UNICEF and working with all of our civil society partners around the world, as well with industry, law enforcement, and government.

I just went to a session, which was spoken about harm on the Internet.  He said there are three ways of tackling it.  One is to use technical means to inhibit.  Second is to attack the harm and do something about it, and the third is moral persuasion.

And actually, that's true.  It's not just an online solution.  We need to work together, and that's what the Model National Response represents.  Thank you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Thank you, Susie.  Let me reiterate, we brought copies of the Model National Response.  We have about 30 of them.  Any of you would like a copy, you can pick it up at the end of the session.  If we run out, leave us your business cards, and we'll get you a copy.

Let me reiterate, I know it looks a little daunting, very specific.  It is intended as a guide, as a tool that you can use in your country to assess what you're doing, where the gaps are.  The expectation is for the that you're going to go back and do all of this, but that you'll take this multi‑stakeholder approach.

So now, for the final presentation before we open it to you, I want to ask Clara Sommarin, the Child Specialist for Exploitation and Violence for UNICEF, to provide us with an update on the progress of the UN Global Fund to End Violence Against Children and the funds that have been spent to date on the initial initiative. 

The initial funding came from the UK, and hopefully will now be supplemented as a part of this new Global Fund by contributions from many other governments and many other individuals.  It's so that we can have the kind of lasting impact on this problem that we all anticipate.

Clara came to UNICEF headquarters in 2009 following her work in Panama.  Prior to joining UNICEF, Clara a Swedish National, worked at Save the Children Sweden.  So, I'm pleased to introduce, Clara.

>> CLARA SOMMARIN:  Thank you so much, Ernie, and inviting UNICEF to be on this panel.  And I should also say, we're also a member of the WePROTECT Board, and I'm delighted to share some of the results that we have been able to make together, collectively, last year through these global programs that UNICEF implemented together with partners in 17 countries across 6 regions, and activities at a global level, with generous support of the UK government and under the WePROTECT Global Alliance to end online child sexual exploitation.

The aim of this program is really to carry forward the vision of the WePROTECT Summit held in London and Abu Dhabi, and really to translate the commitments of government into the industry and in international and national organizations signing up to these statements of actions into concrete action on the ground.

And this is some of these achievements we want to share with you.  Because what we have seen through this program that was a 10‑month program, is that we have an extraordinary amount of action.  We have been able to accelerate government, civil society, and industry action in these countries.  And I should also note that action is still going on.  It was a short startup program, but all the engagement continues, and this is really very, very wonderful to see.

And I should also mention, in addition, of course, with the WePROTECT Board, we've worked with member of the partners here today at the country level, we have worked with governments from different ministries, many of the ministries of telecommunication, ministries of justice, interior, social welfare, education, private sector, the whole part and civil society.  So, it is a true example of a multi‑stakeholder engagement.

So, what did we achieve in this short amount of time?  Of the 17 countries ‑‑ so the program was implemented in 70 countries, 5 in Latin America, Brazil, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, and Paraguay.  Four countries, and worked in two countries in the Middle East and Northern Africa, Nigeria and Jordan.  We worked in three countries in the Eastern European context, Albania, Serbia, and Montenegro, Philippines and Vietnam.  It's an interesting program, of course, regional.

Of these 17 countries, in a short period of time, in 10 countries we managed to support and establish a national‑level coordination mechanisms on child online protection issues with a specific focus on online child sexual exploitation.

So, who are these multi‑stakeholder mechanisms?  It's task forces, working groups at different levels of government, and it really involves governments from justice, ministries of interior, telecommunication, and social welfare.  I think that is unique because this is the first time that we see different ministries come together, join forces to take action to address online child sexual exploitation.  And they have done so very much together with the private sector at country level, and I think this is also something that we would want to stress that this is unique.  We see the government coming together with the private sector, and also with the civil society, and very much so with the hotlines.  And we work closely, for example with IWF, in setting up an online portal there which is currently being set up.

In a very short period of time, we've also seen tremendous efforts to reform legislation to criminalize all forms of sexual exploitation and abuse.  And in particular, online child sexual exploitation.

We have seen that this is either legislation that has been passed or is ready to be passed, has been drafted in 10 of these countries.  We have also seen that there is a tremendous interest from the countries to develop national policies on child online protection or policies on online child sexual exploitation.

Of those 17 countries, 8 countries are in the process of developing national policies, and I think this is tremendously exciting.  And something that I think we ‑‑ from the WePROTECT Board and the partners in WePROTECT, we certainly are all coming together and supporting the countries in developing and implementing these policies.

And of course, very important aspect of the work has been to support the justice sector, to support capacity‑building of law enforcement, prosecutors, and judges.

For example, we have established, in 9 of these 17 countries, we have established a specialized law enforcement agencies or police units within the police or within the prosecutor's offices, specifically looking at online child sexual exploitation.  And of course, along with this establishment of these police units, we have also facilitated training together with Interpol but also with members of the virtual global task force.

And finally, we have, of course, hand‑in‑hand ‑‑ it's not enough to also only work with the law enforcement, we need to work with the child protection system in the countries.  And in 9 of the countries, we have either supported or established reporting mechanisms, so much so through child helplines, and we worked very closely with Child Helpline International on this program and also child helplines in the country.

But we have also established online portals and online mechanisms because children in many countries also want to reach out online.  This is very exciting news.

Then, I just wanted to mention, in terms of the reach, through this program, we have already reached an estimated 30 million people in the 17 countries through awareness‑raising programs, which includes campaigns.  And we did a global campaign.  Reply for all that, we are happy to share with you later on.  It's available on the UNICEF website.  We have reached over 60,000 parents, children, and teachers in their countries through targeted awareness‑raising efforts.

We have also reached over 1,000 industry representatives and government representatives, and we are working with the private sector to try and foster that multi‑sector collaboration at country level.

And through the capacity‑building of law enforcement and child protection systems, we have reached over 3,000 law enforcement officers, prosecutors, judges, and child protection workers.

As mentioned also, we have worked very much together with partners at a global level, and I just want to mention some of them.  Of course, IWF, but also Child Helpline International, GSMA with the private sector, we have also worked with the Family Online, Child Safety Institute to update the Global Resource Information Directory, where you can go and find information about child online protection initiatives in, basically, all the countries in the world.

So, we are very, very tremendously grateful to the WePROTECT Board and the UK government to be able to implement this program, and we really look forward to accelerating the action in the countries together with all of you, everyone here in the room, and together with the Board.  And UNICEF really stands committed to continue to work with the WePROTECT Global Alliance, and as Ernie said, accelerate actions to accelerate child exploitation in order to make the target, 16.2, a reality for all children.  Thank you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Thank you, Clara, and with multiple mentions of Child Helpline.  The Director, Sheila Donovan is with us today.  You're doing an incredible amount of work in this area.

That's an overview of WePROTECT, the impact it's having, the beginning of this effort as part of the global end to violence against children. 

Now, we want to open the floor to you.  What are your comments, suggestions, ideas?  Anybody?  Yes, sir, we have microphones.  I'm sorry.  Yeah.  Please, introduce yourself.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you for giving me the floor.  My name is Jutta from the German Center for Child Protection on the Internet, and I wanted to congratulation WePROTECT to the wonderful work you are doing, and but also, I wanted to try to expand your focus a little bit further.

We have set up a network, No Gray Areas on the Internet, two years ago, with the support of the Federal Ministry for Family in Germany, and it's now expanded to 35 organizations worldwide.

And what we call No Gray Areas, gray areas, on the Internet are these images that might be illegal in one country but are not illegal in all countries.  And to what Susie has been saying, we aren't talking about the worst of the worst, but it all starts with images that are not the worst of the worst.  We're talking about erotic posing images of children, but also images just showing innocent, everyday images that are put into a sexualized context so that people make comments how they would like to sexually abuse the children shown in the images.

My focus would be to try to convince you that it's possible to discover and differentiate these images and try to combat the gray areas on the Internet as well.

I brought it with me, it's called No Gray Images, and it shows how it's possible to differentiate the images, not to make innocent images illegal, but to make them illegal if they are put into a sexualized context.  Thank you so much for giving me the floor.  Thank you.

Thank you.  If you could leave that, I'll make sure we take a look at that.  And let me also say, German Law Enforcement, in particular, has been very effective.  The BKA has been a global leader on this, so thank you for all you're doing. 

Any comments from anybody else?  Others?

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you, Ernie.  I'm here representing the federal prosecution ‑‑ no.  I'm joking.  I'm a federal prosecutor in Brazil, and I'd like to share with you a little bit of our work against child abuse in Brazil.

I've been working against child abuse, child pornography, more specifically, for more than 10 years.  And, we have a group and we have a national group in the federal prosecution of Brazil, and also in Sao Paulo.

We are specialized in combating cybercrimes focused on hate crimes and child pornography, which we learned all these years, that partnership, it's the best way to combat these crimes.

And the best combat, I believe, it's still the prevention.  What we started to do in Brazil, and some people could ask, oh, but is this work a job of a federal prosecution in the criminal area?  Yes, it is.

In our opinion, it is, because we must protect the vulnerable.  And in my opinion, there is no one more vulnerable than our children who go to the Internet.

So, what we did since some years ago, since 2007, 2008, we started to go to some schools, prosecutors with the partnership with Safe Internet, with my good friend is here, and we went with psychologists to talk with the teachers, to talk with the parents, how they could be cautious against these damages, against these worries we have in the Internet.  They don't have experience, so we try to them to give experience to them.

It was such a success, the program, that we couldn't do it anymore.  Not because we didn't want, but because we didn't have people enough to do it.  We do other things during our work, so there was a project that started.  One of the coordinators, started two years ago, right, Nate?  Started two years ago, with the partnership with SaferNet in Brazil, that I'm very proud to share with you.

Instead of going to the schools, we brought the teachers, the educators, the social workers, to us.  We gave speeches all around Brazil with a prosecutor and with a workshop given from SaferNet, and he talks to the educators, and talks to them to give them material and how to make games with the school, how to talk with teenagers and how to talk with children.

I'm very proud so say this this work is going on, and we work with SaferNet with some videos that we show.  And I'm very proud to say that this year we are going to continue the program with public schools and bring these people.

So, in all of our experience, if I could say to you, that the prosecutors that are here and the people that are here, please work on education and prevention.  I want to congratulate the WePROTECT for all the of the framework.  This is our experience.  Focus on prevention.  Focus on in school, not just on children and teenagers but parents and professors.  Thank you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Thank you.  Jim, I think you received a question?

>> JIM:  Yes.  Actually, we have two questions.  The first is from Heather.  The question is for Jacqueline.  There are many coalitions to tackle online crime, for example, the Technology Coalition.  How does WePROTECT work in harmony with the other initiatives?

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Thank you, Jim, and thank you to Heather for that question.

>> JACQUELINE BEAUCHERE:  What I find particularly unique about WePROTECT, is that it is, in fact, this multi‑stakeholder body that can bring all of these perspectives and all of these views together.  But individually, each sector can also work on its own.  And I think what Heather is referencing is the Technology Coalition, a newer nonprofit, we recently received the nonprofit status.  It's made up of Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Dropbox, a number of U.S. companies focused on the space.  And we come together as technology companies to look at the technical aspects of this problem and what we can do, specifically from a technology perspective, and then work closely with WePROTECT bringing our technology platform to this forum where we can all discuss at that level and integrate with the other aspects of WePROTECT.

So, again, what I find particularly unique is, is that we can work together, as an industry in our sector, and then the multi‑stakeholder, as well, where we can get the broader perspective.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Jim, you had a second.

>> JIM:  Second question, coming in online from Michael A.  I applaud WePROTECT's attention to remediating sexual exploitation when it is found online via the various reporting tools noted by the panel; however, in the opening comments, there was a referential to prevention.

While previous attempts of creating a safe space for children in the ENS, Kids.us were largely unsuccessful.  Will be deciding the registry operator of Dot Kids top‑level domain in the near foreseeable future.

ICANN's Government Advisory Committee has identified this is a sensitive string requiring special consideration.  Does the panel have any opinion on whether there should be preregistration verification mechanisms to minimize potential exploitation, or would post‑registration reporting tools be sufficient, similar to existing Legacy TLDs given the unique characteristics of Dot Kids.  A brief one for you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Yeah.  A brief one.  Let me just make a quick comment, and then I think Thiago, on the prevention side, and others may want to comment as well.

Two leading authorities on this space are in the room, John Car of the United Kingdom and Mary, the columnist, journalist, tech wizard.

We were just talking about, earlier today, about an initiative underway in the UK.  In fact, the House of Commons has passed legislation to require age verification to access to certain ‑‑ to access certain kinds of sites.  The focus in the UK is pornography, but also for online gambling sites, being done for dating site, for alcohol sites.

So, one of the key challenges is, can we develop a mechanism that appropriately protects the privacy of users, that in the case of pornography, that focuses solely on child protection and not on the content, so it does not deny access to any adult to any content.  And the answer to that, in my judgment, I've been working on it in the United States, the UK, again, is far out in front.  Though, countries like Finland and Iceland have already done this in other ways.  Can we develop a technology approach that enables sites to verify the age of users?

Prime Minister Cameron launched this in a speech in 2013, and the example he used is that a 13‑year‑old in the United Kingdom can't walk into a video store and purchase an X‑rated DVD.  But the same child can access the same content on the Internet.

So, one of the challenges, I think, implied by that question is, how do we bring an appropriate level of protection to the cyberworld that exists in the physical world?  And I don't suggest that that will be easy, but I think there are mechanisms.  I think we have to consider it in a way that is appropriately prospective of individual privacy rights.  And, I think, once again, the UK is an example that it can be done.  Any other comments on that?

>> SUSIE HARGREAVES:  Obviously, I'm from the UK, and the age verification issue is a huge one at the moment.  I wanted to just reclarify the difference between allowing access by minors to harmful content and illegal content.

And, the issue of child sexual abuse is complicated enough, in that, the content we're dealing with ranges from, you know, babies being abused through to 16, and 17‑year‑olds taking pictures of themselves, and they still come within the frame of child sexual abuse content legally.

So, I think it's really important to, sort of, separate out the different issues in relation to attacking and approaching illegal content for everybody and then looking at ways to make the Internet safer and deal with harmful content for minors.  Thank you.

>> I'd like to comment on that.  I think that a big challenge, it's to find the correct balance between protection and privacy.

I remember one picture that was in the New York Times and '92, '91.  It's a very famous picture where a dog was in front of a computer.  And users say, wow, on the Internet, nobody knows who is a dog.

And since that time, nobody knows who is a dog or not on the Internet.  And the protection of the users' privacy is a core issue, and I think we should consider, when discussing this approach of age verification, we should consider the chilling effect that some users can make on privacy issues and other, so all of those aspects, that it's really important for the Internet, for through the Internet that we consider the discussions.

I can share an experience that we had in the Brazilian Steering Committee.  I wanted to be the Chair, it's that we have, it's the Brazilian Steering Committee, and we discussed the policy issues regarding implementation of the democracy view of the Internet, the civil rights framework for Internet in Brazil.

And one of the topics it's the topic of anonymity.  The Brazilian institutions prohibits anonymity.  But anonymity, it's also important, for example, to report a crime to the police or a cybertipline, for all the respects of civil rights, and we should find this correct balance.  It's not an easy task.  It's really hard.  There is a long discussion about that without consensus, but we should consider different perspectives and try to identify the extent of some measures that are really important for the free and open Internet, such as, neutrality and privacy.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  And let me add.  I think Susie's clarification was a really good one.  When Prime Minister Cameron made his original speech in 2013, he identified two parts of the problem.  One, he called criminal.  The second, he called cultural.  The response to the criminal part of the problem is WePROTECT.  The response to the cultural part of the problem is his effort with filters, with age verification.

Our view is, child sexual abuse images have nothing to do with free speech.  They're crime‑scene photos, they're inherently illegal.  No one is suggesting that all content would be open to any user or whatever, even if they pass an age‑verification test.  So that criminal cultural online, I think, is an important one to make.  Susie, I'm glad you made that point.

Other comments?  Yes, ma'am?

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you very much.  I am from Nigeria, and I'm happy that somebody said that.  My friend, Susie, I have worked with her in the Commonwealth.  I wanted to see, when I heard about WePROTECT, I was thinking beyond just the child and looking at other people, the citizens, every other person that uses the Internet.

So, is WePROTECT only for children?  And apart from that, it seems to me that only the sexual abuse aspect of protecting the children that WePROTECT is looking at, but we have more than that in your own environment.  We have recruiting children for terrorism online, we have hate speech, all sorts of things happening online.  My government is getting jittery over it and asking, you know, even there was a deal by one of the legislators to regulate the social media.

But for the outcry of the whole public and civil society, so it was like stepped down.  So, is WePROTECT only looking at children first?  And again, is it only sexual abuse?  We have more than sex abuse when it comes to children protection.  What are the area or other areas that should be taken into considerations with this?

And again, has the membership, is it just fill out a form online and become a member of the WePROTECT?  Thank you.

>> JACQUELINE BEAUCHERE:  If I may respond to that.  I was speaking on behalf of myself as a member of industry, Microsoft as a member of industry, in the WePROTECT Global Alliance.  There are many different aspects as Chief Safety Officers at Microsoft.  We deal with, on a daily basis, I deal with on a daily basis, what I call, the parade of horribles across the web.  It is hate speech, and terrorist content, and online bullying, and child sexual abuse material, and extortion, and online and revenge porn.  So, I would like to preview for you, say, something Microsoft will launch for Safer Internet Day of 2017.  We're putting out what we think to think of as a campaign for digital civility.

So, we're going to have some baseline research in 14 countries that we've conducted, and I apologize, Nigeria is not one of them, but Mexico is one of them.  What we did, is we've asked teens, ages 13 to 17 in the 14 countries, as well as adults, ages 18 to 74, about 17 different online risks and the interactions that they've had online and how they've associated with those risks.

We've written two blogs already about some preliminary data in that research, and we released the first blog in the back‑to‑school timeframe and re‑perused some of the teen data.

Basically, what teens are saying is that they're concerned about life online.  They're concerned, particularly, about their personal safety.  And they only fear that the risks are going to increase in the future.

And when it came to hate speech and cyberbullying and online bullying and being treated meanly online, the youth were outpacing the adults.

The second blog we did was in the early November, on November the 10th we released this post and looked a little bit about some of the preliminary data, primarily about adults.  We timed this one to post‑U.S. Presidential Election, and we also timed this to November 13th, if you weren't aware, is World Kindness Day.  What the data showed in that blog, some of the preliminary results, is 65% of all the people surveyed, both the youth and adults, said that they had encountered at least one of these online risks.

And there were offline consequences to those online risks.  There was sleeplessness, there was increased stress, there was a need to want to disengage from the online world.  But there was one bit of hope, particularly, for adults, about ‑‑ almost one‑third, about 30% of them, said that it made them think a little bit more critically before they criticized someone online.  They wanted to be more constructive in their criticism when they were talking with people online after they had this negative online interaction.

So, that's a look at the data.  There is also going to be other assessment that we're going to follow with on Safer Internet Day itself.  What we're trying to create, is not saying we have all the answers, but hoping for a platform or leaping‑off point, kind of a springboard to embrace as a global Internet community, the idea of increasing digital civility and really creating that web that we want going forward.  Thank you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Clara?

>> CLARA SOMMARIN:  Yeah.  Thank you.  I think this is a very good question.  Is WePROTECT only about online child sexual exploitation?  From a UNICEF point of view, what we could see last year, when we implemented this program, is that this has been a fantastic entry point.  Countries have started to address it, but it doesn't mean that they have stopped there.  They have gone on in addressing cyberbullying, and other forms of online violence.  I think, even though WePROTECT focuses on online child sexual exploitation, it is an entry point, depending on country context, being able to address other forms of online protection issues, but also other forms of violence, exploitation, and abuse that children face in the physical world.  And, I think that, also related to what Jacqueline was saying, that we know that this online violence also can have definitely offline consequences. 

So, from a UNICEF point of view, we have seen that there is a great connection between the grooming of children online for sexual exploitation that happens in the real world, right.  So then definitely, there is a very strong connection, and it's a good entry point.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Let me just elaborate.  I think probably the most direct and honest answer to your question is that it was the intention of Prime Minister Cameron and Prime Minister May to focus more narrowly on this issue because you can't solve all of the world's problems.

This is one that may be naive and delusional, but I am firmly convinced that this is a problem we can eliminate in our lifetimes, simply through the kind of multi‑stakeholder approach we're talking about.

Because of Microsoft's PhotoDNA content, that resided on servers of multiple companies, is now gone because of tools like Google's commitment to eliminate search results that produce child sexual abuse images.  The ability to search for content and have it pop up is disappearing.

So, the notion was, here is an area that is well‑defined, and if we address in a comprehensive way, we can have major impact.  But, it doesn't mean that this initiative shouldn't be collaborating with others, shouldn't be taking what we learn and what we develop and what we apply and apply it to a wide range of challenges.

For example, one of the other SDGs is 8.7, on eliminating forced labor and modern slavery.  We're working with the International Labor Organization and New Alliance 8.7 because much of ‑‑ at least part of their problem involves the use of the Internet for human trafficking, for child labor, for ‑‑ and much of which involves sexual abuse and exploitation.

And then the final point I want to make is, on 16.2, the new UN initiative that Clara is playing such a central role in, the Global Partnership to End Violence Against Children and Global Fund to Prevent Violence Against Children is introducing one of three priorities, one of which is online.  One of them involves children victimized in war situations, others involve children victimized in normal life situations.

So, the goal is to end all violence against children.  The focus of WePROTECT is more narrow, and our concept was more strategic.  Let's see if we can bring together multiple players in a coordinated way, develop resources, target those resources.  The comments by our prosecutors from Brazil reinforced, in my mind ‑‑ I'm sorry that Colonel Bautista couldn't be here, but he's a great real‑life example. 

In it 2008, he was asked by the Columbian police, for the first time, to address the issue of developing digital tools to investigate online crime.  Columbian National Police are now a global model.  For the first time, as a result of WePROTECT and the work that Clara talked about, there are new law enforcement specialized investigative units in countries like El Salvador and Dominion Republic and Jordan.  In some of those countries, the response when we first engaged them was, this isn't a problem in our country.

What we're hearing all over the world is the only way to not find this problem, in any country, is simply not to look for it.

So, the good news is, because of the leadership of the UK and UNICEF and all the people on this panel, countries around the world have begun to look, and they're discovering that it is a problem.  What we're trying to do is develop tools that they can use to actually solve them.  Sorry to make a speech.  Yes?

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.  My name is Kiki from Indonesia, and I do really appreciate it about this workshop.

Actually, we have a lot of issues in Indonesia about child online, and now we are trying to make a roadmap about child online protection.  And throughout, it is still an on‑going process, and then we using the multi‑stakeholder approach, and one of our stakeholders is UNICEF Indonesia.  And in Indonesia, we have one of the reason why we want to build a roadmap because we have a lot of programs.

We have a lot of ‑‑ we have a lot of some regulation to protect the children while they're online, so that is the reason.  We just want to collaborate the program and also ‑‑ going through the program and implementation the program by our stakeholder, and not only the government, but with our stakeholder.

So, and after the presentation by the panelists from WePROTECT, we just trying to learn more and implementation about the program.  And maybe Indonesia, especially our Minister of Communication and Technology, I hope we can cooperate to end the exploitation of children online.  Thank you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Thank you.  And let me say, Indonesia was an early member of the Virtual Global Task Force which is a network of law enforcement agencies.  Indonesia recognized early that this is a problem that law enforcement in one country can't solve alone because of the nature of this problem crosses national borders.  So, we're very pleased that you're here, and hope Indonesia will become far more engaged in addressing this.  Yeah.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.  I just really appreciated this conversation about how one addresses a multi‑stakeholder challenge, and coming from the legal and the technological and the kind of top‑down governmental approach, but also, I am thinking about the cultural issues that have also come up and what you call, kind of, the gray areas.

And one of the things that I just wanted to say, WePROTECT is also funded, is the research project Global Kids Online.  I have some reports here if anyone would like to follow up.  We've been trying to do what research can do well, which is to put the child ‑‑ the children who are at risk in the wider context of their community, the roles and possibilities for their parents, teachers, and friends, so that we see how it is that certain children, under certain circumstances, do come into the risk of serious harm, and to understand what all the other stakeholders might, kind of, do in a, kind of, holistic sense.  And seeing how that works in different countries and different cultures gives us a sense of, I think, where there are ways to, kind of, press in terms of teachers, parents, and indeed, educating children.  So, the research, kind of, gives us ideas of, kind, of priorities there.  Anyone who wants to hear more about this, come and ask.  Thank you very much for the fantastic work that you're all doing.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Any comments?  And let me say for any of you who could get a copy of that report, it is very hopeful, really encouraging, and demonstrates that real action is taking place on the ground and changes are being made.

>> SUSIE HARGREAVES:  One of the things I wanted to say about WePROTECT and the multi‑stakeholder approach is that the funding is fantastic and absolutely a game changer for those of us who have been working in this field, to have that amount of money available to attack the problem is really important.

But almost more important is people just working together.  And the existing resources being shared in terms of skills, resources, advice, support, and many people involved in this project, don't get any money from WePROTECT, but we're still committed to it because it's about tackling and finding a solution to the problem, which as I said before, you just can't do it in one country alone.

So even if ‑‑ even if you've got a need, the support is there, even if it's not funding support.  It might be support from law enforcement, from the hotline association, from a range of partners.  It's not necessarily just about the money, but about helping you deliver on the commitment to make a difference.  Thank you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  We have ‑‑ all right.  Let's do that and then we'll come to an online question.  Yes, sir?

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.  Hi.  My name is Mohammad, you have a NGO in UA.  It is a UA national consortium for 25 national entities, including ministry of ‑‑ and other national and government and nongovernment entities.  So, we are conducting a workshop tomorrow of collaboration toward and beyond child online protection.  We'll be talking more on, other than the child abuse materials, probably the child development and education programs.

I have a question in terms of the WePROTECT.  What is the technical measures has been talked about live streams of child abuse?  I'm from India, originally, we have 460 million Internet users, and now maybe Susie can give some insight into that because the live‑streaming is becoming quite ‑‑ it's becoming normal now these days.  So, what is the ‑‑ what is the WePROTECT mission taking care of technical measures in terms of live‑streaming.  Thank you very much and inviting everyone tomorrow at 10:45. Thank you.

>> CLARA SOMMARIN:  Let me start.  The challenge of live streaming is enormous, and frankly, it's one of the reasons why one of the target countries for our initial round of projects was the Philippines where this was a particular issue.  There have been major cases made by Swedish police, by UK police, by U.S. police and so much of that is rooted in poverty, that parents are simply providing the children for money.

So, it is a massive problem.  It is a key element of what we're trying to address, and a lot of that, frankly, is going to be addressed through aggressive enforcement.  Law enforcement didn't recognize when it began to happen what a serious problem it was.  But there are people now spending time in correctional facilities all over the world who have engaged with that.

We had to address not only through law enforcement, but engagement of civil society on the ground.  And real progress is being made in the Philippines, but we need to do it in more countries.  

>> SUSIE HARGREAVES:  Maybe just to mention, it's true what Ernie is saying, Philippines was supported through one of the first rounds of WePROTECT.  They have been working a lot with law enforcement.  We have also done ‑‑ thank you Sonia for mentioning the Global Kids ‑‑ I should have mentioned, it's a fantastic piece of work facilitated through WePROTECT. 

Philippines is one of the countries now carrying out the study.  I think that will be particularly important to also understand why is the live streaming happening.  As you say, we also are not only working with law enforcement, but also looking at the prevention angle.  Why are these children put into these situations, and what are the family dynamics triggering that?

And then, I just wanted to say, to the lady from Indonesia, that it's fantastic that you have such a commitment to child online protection issues, and we certainly stand ready to work with you in Indonesia, and we already do, and I believe also the partnership that Ernie was mentioning, the Global Partnership to End Violence Against Children, I believe Indonesia is one of the pathfinder countries.

>> Yeah.

>> SUSIE HARGREAVES:  So you will definitely have an opportunity to work with all of us, I think, on these issues.

>> JACQUELINE BEAUCHERE:  I know you're asking specifically about technical issues with respect to live streaming, I would just, sort of, take you through the progression.  As you know, Microsoft developed PhotoDNA, which we've heard a little bit about today.  That specifically applies to still images.

Through the technology coalition and some other efforts of other companies, we're making some progress around video, in applying PhotoDNA and other techniques to video.  The next step, of course, is live streaming.

When we're talking about live streaming, we're talking about, basically, a private conversation between two people.  So as Thiago was talking earlier about, the balance, we have to balance privacy issues.  Now, of course, we know there would really be no legal basis for having this kind of conversation, but it's difficult for a technology company to identify that this is happening because of privacy concerns and privacy issues.

This is where we need to work with governments, and governments need to work with law enforcement and really apply that multi‑stakeholder approach to this issue.  It's not just a technology play because technology, we are bound by other constraints and we cannot go and dip into conversations.  We know this is happening.  As Ernie says, it's a huge problem, but we have to work together to some to some reasonable solution.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  And let me add to that.  There is no better example of the importance of a multi‑stakeholder, multi‑faceted approach. 

One case in point, two years ago, a man in Sweden was convicted of the rape of a child when he wasn't even in the same country as the child when the child was sexually assaulted.

A Swedish court held him responsible for the rape of a child when he hired men in the Philippines to obtain children as young as 5 who were then sexually assaulted by a live streaming video while he directed the action from the privacy of his home in Sweden.

Now, most of the countries in the world couldn't have done that.  So, we need better law.  We need better law enforcement.  We need better technology.  We need better social services and support for families and children, you know, on the ground.

So, I think your question really captured the complexity and the difficulty of the problem we're trying to address.  Larry?

>> LARRY:  Part of the prevention issue is getting people not to engage in these crimes against children, and obviously, law enforcement is a very important part of that.

But what about working with people before they become abusers?  Trying to educate young people, trying to somehow intervene in this process early in the game when, perhaps, we have some evidence that a person is likely.  I realize thoughts are not against the law, so you can't do that kind of thing, but how or what kinds of efforts can be made to get people, simply, not to go down that very dark road of being an abuser?

>> SUSIE HARGREAVES:  Let me just respond briefly, then I'll let the other panelists respond.  Jutta was here from Germany, they initiated a project funded initially by Volkswagen.  The concept is that people who are sexually attracted to children are often reluctant to reach out for help because of the concern about stigma and having, you know, their lives ruined.

Dunkelfeld provided a vehicle for which people could reach out anonymously, receive help from a therapist, and the whole concept was intervening before they offend.  Now, that's difficult for a lot of countries to do because we certainly know, politically, that there are risks in saying that we're going to take care of, you know, would‑be child abusers.

But the reality is, you're exactly right.  Unless we do something like that, all we're doing is responding after the fact.  So, I think there is a growth in that.  There is work in the UK in that area through organizations like Stop It Now that are trying to intervene sooner in this issue.  And, I think, we have to come to grips that we're not going to be able to arrest and prosecute our way out of this problem, unless we do a meaningful effort to intervene earlier, and that's primary intervention.  Intervention before there is a victim, not just catching somebody after the fact. 

>> Very quickly.  We've done quite a lot of research, and a young men age 16 to 24 the most likely to stumble upon child sexual abuse and the least likely to report it, so we've done a number of campaigns, and we're about to do a, sort of a, specific campaign with the UK home office to actually target that ‑‑ target that age group so that just to make sure they don't go there in the first place because we want to stop people developing the behavior in the first place.

And also, Stop It Now has done an amazing campaign.  The people already looking at that content, so you're absolutely right, Larry, you've got to stop people before.

>> JACQUELINE BEAUCHERE:  I want to add one point, from a research perspective, I was a little concerned with this, kind of, campaign or this, kind of, push.  We could potentially, inadvertently, be inspiring, sort of, casual users to find out what exactly are people talking about when they talk about this kind of material.

Search engines are now offering ads and promotional materials, so even if you look up a potentially inappropriate phrase that could potentially be linked to child sexual abuse material in some way, we offer a little ad to Stop It Now to be able to see if people need help or if they're actually embarking on that casual abuse or casual inquiry frame of mind.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  I think we have an online question.

>> MODERATOR:  Yes, it's from ‑‑ excuse the mispronunciation, Roci.  As civil society, what can we do when we detect images on websites where there is abuse clearly seen of children?  And this is my suggestion, is to make a campaign where society will unite and denounce the types of action, but with information close by as what we can do and where to denounce it.

>> Report it.  Report it.  I mean, we do need to do more around the world to raise the awareness that you can report it.  So, if you type into Google or Bing or anything where to report child sexual abuse or child pornography, it will give you the helplines and hotlines to report it to, so that's what you should do.  It's your responsibility to report it.

What we need to do, my view, is that we need to do so much more to educate people about ‑‑ this is less about the gray areas that were talking about, but basically, if you see an image of a 10‑year‑old being abused, you really don't need someone to tell you it's wrong.  We need to do more on a moral persuasion route to say that this is actually unacceptable behavior, and actually, you know, that's not acceptable.  And if you see it, it's not fun, it's not great, and not cool to share with your friends.  Report it.  That's why we have anonymous reporting.  80% of all of our reports from the public are anonymous.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Yes, ma'am?

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you very much.  Veronica, and we are also part of the Advisory Board of WePROTECT and are really appreciative of the multi‑stakeholder approach.  But there are also a number of challenges in the area.  I would like to address the panel with a number of questions.

One is, how can we ensure that WePROTECT remains sustainable, both in terms of engaging governments to take part of the initiative, but also in terms of sponsors, and having actual funds available?

Second, given the limited amount of resources, because as Susie said, okay, the funding is important, but it's certainly not enough to cover the needs in this area worldwide.  How are the funds being prioritized and how will they continue to be prioritized in the future?

And a final question is, how do we measure progress?  And how is WePROTECT committed to evaluating progress in the area?

Because, I think, when developing the multi‑national response and developing capacities in the different areas, we see a different reality.  And Sonia said, the cultures are very different, but also countries are dealing with very different realities.

So, I think it's timely to take a more qualitative approach to measure progress because a progress that one country can make cannot be necessarily comparable to the progress another country makes.  But it's also important to guide those countries to help them make decisions according to where they need to prioritize their efforts.  Thank you.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Let me start, and then Clara, you may have some comments on this.

Sustainability is our largest challenge.  And one of the things I would say to all of you, I used to say this when this was a David Cameron Initiative, and I say it when it's a Teresa May Initiative, and that is, to the best of my knowledge, one head of state, one head of government on the planet is talking about this issue.

WePROTECT happened because the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom said this is serious and a problem and we're going to do something about it.  One of our biggest challenges, in terms of sustainability, in terms of impact, is raising the level of concern about this, of awareness up the policy level, which is why we will let all of you know about the WePROTECT 2017 Summit.  A site has not yet been chosen and dates have not yet been chosen.

The goal is to get, not just all of us, but the highest level decision‑makers we can get there.  Challenge number one is simply for world leaders to recognize and to agree that this is a serious problem, and then they'll respond to it.

The other point I would make is, there is now a mechanism in place, created as a result of SDG 16.2, it's called the Global Partnership and Global Fund to End Violence Against Children.  Part of the challenge will be to raise a lot more money, so when you go home, tell the leaders of your country.  You don't have to put up the equivalent of 50 million pounds, but lots of countries need to be contributing to this.

One of the biggest challenges we face, I talked to a Foreign Minister in Abu Dhabi, who looked at the Model National Response and said, we'll do that, but you need to pay for it.  Well, we're never going to have enough resources to pay for this in every country on the planet.

The goal is to use the money as generated as seed money to demonstrate effectiveness, to demonstrate what works and what doesn't, to demonstrate ways that you can replicate.  So, we got to raise a lot more money, raise the level of concern among policymakers.  In terms of measurement, I think one of the exciting things about what Clara reported to you, is UNICEF is doing that.  We are measuring and evaluating the impact.  We've only done it in 17 countries so far.

But you heard, we're not spending money in Britain and the United States and Canada.  You know, we're spending money in the developing world to develop these ‑‑ this capacity, to develop this resource and then measure the effectiveness.

So, I think your points are right on, and those are concerns we're thinking about.  Any ideas you have, any ways or suggestions you have, let us know.  Clara?

>> CLARA SOMMARIN:  Yeah.  Thank you.  I want to pick up on the point what Ernie was saying about the SDG.  It's true.  Through the SDG and agenda 2030, all countries in the world have committed to address violence, exploitation, and abuse.  That includes online child exploitation and abuse.  I think it's a very powerful message.

I think we all know, at least in UNICEF, it's quite clear to us that the funding climate has changed dramatically these past couple of years.  We see migration courses, for example, in the European context, and some of those countries, including my own country.  I'm Swedish.  I think the Swedish government last year diverted some of their overseas development budget to deal with their home, you know, the problem of migration in the country.

So, I think also, when it comes to funding, we also need to be creative and find other ways of funding.  And also, as Ernie was saying, it's about political will.  And we know that in many countries, there is actually resources, and we need to leverage those resources as well.

In terms of the monitoring innovation, I completely agree with you.  I don't think we can assess the countries on the same scale.  I think we need to look at where the countries started and where they're getting to.

What I didn't have time to mention was that through the WePROTECT program last year, we did undertake an evidence review on what are the effective policies and programs to address online child sexual exploitation and also empowering children.  And we're right now finalizing guidance on developing national policies.  And it's true, through this work, we have seen that it's a clear need for all of us to develop and monitor an elevation framework, and I think that's also something that the WePROTECT Board has discussed in relation to the Model National Response, and look at how can we help the countries during these assessments.

So, I think, at least, from UNICEF, we look forward to your ideas and look forward to working with you on that.  And I do think, that in terms of sustainability also, I think actually, there is a lot of action going on on the ground, not only in the 17 countries that we supported, but also in other countries where all of us are working.  And I think we need to continue supporting those efforts.  And as soon as we have the infrastructure and legislation in place, I do think that there are better opportunities that our initiatives will become sustainable.

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Yes, sir?

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi.  This is Mohid from Internet Society UA Chapter.  First of all, I would like to thank you all for your interventions and telling us about what we protect and what your organization is doing in this important space.  But I would like to also draw your attention toward financial correlation.

Earlier, there was a lot of stress about financial correlations, MasterCard and Visa, and people are the money.  Then there was a whole sense of dynamics of this economy switch was working.  So, how does it change with the virtual currencies like online coming into pictures and people are becoming more and more anonymous when it comes to, probably, paying for this objectionable content.  Has that been thought about?  How are they going to address these challenges?

>> ERNIE ALLEN:  Yes.  It's a dramatic challenge.  One of the things we've seen is that this is a problem, that in many ways, has moved from commercial to noncommercial with the invent of the Internet.  It was no longer all driven by purchase or subscription.  These were images traded among people of like interest.

But the invent of virtual currency, digital currencies, the invent of the dark web, the ability to, you know, engage and share information with people anonymously, creates a whole new component.

A university in the UK did research on the dark web and found that only 2% were pedophilia sites but accounted for 80% of the dark web content.  So, there is no question that there is a migration of users into areas where they're less likely to be identified or victimized.

So, the challenge that you state is a real one.  We have to be aware of that.  This problem is going to continue to migrate, continue to change.  We have to catch up technologically, and try, to the greatest extent possible, to stay ahead of the curve.

Anybody else?  I think I have abused our time a little bit.  We got a little wound up here, but I wanted to thank all of you for being here.  I particularly want to thank Jim Pendergast, sitting down here, of the Galway SG Group, the organizer, put the plan together, brought the people together.  He did a magnificent job.  Jim, thank you.

And a reminder for any of you who would like a copy of the Model National Response, it will be here on the table.  There are 30 of them.  So, if you're not in the first 30, just give me a business card and we'll send you one.

Thank you for being here, and thanks to the panelists for your extraordinary information.


(session completed at 1:35 p.m.)