IGF 2016 - Day 2 - Room 9 - OF1: European Commission


The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Eleventh Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Jalisco, Mexico, from 5 to 9 December 2016. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 


>> MODERATOR:  Welcome.  I see familiar faces this morning so thank you very much for taking the time to come to this on GIPO.  My name is Cristina, I think many of you know me, I work for the European Commission in the G connect.  I am the head of the sector responsible for Internet Governance and stakeholder engagement.  I'm here with Kasia Jakimowicz.  She is responsible for strategic stakeholder engagement for GIPO and European affairs manager at Open Evidence.

And to my left is Andrea Calderaro Director of Internet relations Center for Internet and Global Policy, University of Cardiff.  Andrea is also a member of the Advisory Group for GIPO.  The idea of the Open Forum is to present to you what the global Internet policy observatory is, show you how you can connect your website to GIPO so that you can enrich it with new useful functionalities.  I would like to have a feeling, I mean, in order to make the section useful I think many of you have participated in sessions on GIPO.  Can I maybe ask you to briefly raise your hand if you already know what GIPO is and if you have already explored the tool? 

Still a few newcomers, I hope that you will find this presentation useful.  We actually presented GIPO at the last IGF in Brazil.  It was one year ago, and at that time we were really at the initial stage in the development of the tool.

Since then a number of improvements and additional features have been added.  Also thanks to the input we have got from stakeholders whom we have been consulting all the way long.  So what I would like to do before I give the floor to Kasia and Andrea is to really briefly explain why the European Commission is developing this tool and why I think this is an important practical contribution in answering the multistakeholder model of Internet Governance, especially now in the current landscape after the IANA transition to the global community, and the new and extended mandate of the IGF.

Internet Governance as you all know is becoming everywhere in the world an important political priority.  We have seen an intensification of the debates in a number of fora and venues in a different levels, local, national, regional, global and we could say that Internet Governance is now at a turning point as the Internet becomes more and more embedded in all aspects of our life.

We are at the beginning of what will be, what will become the Internet of Things.  We see that artificial intelligence will arrive, block chain technologies, a whole series of new challenges also for Internet Governance.  And how can these challenges be addressed?  We know that Internet Governance is a complex subject matter, and also the multistakeholder approach to address these challenges has, we could say broad consensus with some exceptions, of course, but in general there is consensus that the multistakeholder model is the, offers the right to model to address the complexity of these issues because why?  Because all stakeholders can contribute and participate.

At the same time, we see the need to improve and strengthen this model.  One important aspect I would say is to make it more inclusive and more balanced.  And that means more stakeholders from different groups and from more countries.  And I think we can all agree that when you have, when you have the resources, the financial resources, the time resources to get the information required, you have an added value, you have an advantage and those who do not have that are left behind.

This is something that somehow should be improved and corrected in the multistakeholder approach to Internet Governance.  So a barrier to overcome is the problem of finding the right and relevant quality information that different stakeholders need to access.  And in this sense we think that GIPO can play a useful role thanks to its capacity to perform a real time monitoring analysis and information sharing functions.

GIPO is a tool for everybody.  The European Commission is developing it, but it intends to give it to the global community without necessarily being the final or sole owner of the tool.  Now, we are in the final stages of the development.  The tool uses open source technology as much as possible.  It relies on automation as much as possible, and the way in which it operates is fully transparent.  You can see how the filters work, what the sources are, et cetera.

And it is also relying on the knowledge of the users who can provide additional sources and can interact with the tool in different ways, but I think that this is just enough as an introduction.  I think the most important thing is to have a look at the tool, and then hopefully we will have some time for discussions and questions.  So Kasia, you have the floor.  Thank you.

>> KASIA JAKIMOWICZ:  Because not all of you have seen it so far so we will try to focus on showing it a little bit, but I'm going to try not to go through all of the slides then because some of them are a direct repetition of what Christine already spoke about.  So when GIPO started last year, we, we have identified initiatives in our first survey because we wanted to see what the landscape is and how we can actually accommodate the needs of different stakeholders, so we managed to map 33 initiatives and what we have seen is it that stakeholders represent a broad range of organisations.  And these are various types of initiatives.

These are not observatories and mapping reports.  This is networks of centers, and research reports.  There is the stakeholders are very diverse, diverse geographically, but also they cover different thematic coverage of Internet Governance policy topics.  What is very important what we discover is that most of the initiatives are very small and will meet limited funding and limited human resources, so at the same time almost all of them require human curation so that's a challenge because it's a resource intensive task.  So this is what we have learned.  This is some examples of the initiatives that we were analyzing.  So as Cristina mentioned GIPO is an automated tool that has needs of other platforms and uses as its centre focus so this is why we are mapping other initiatives so we are looking at a broader perspective and we consider other stakeholders as also stakeholders for GIPO.  So it is adopting a federation approach as Cristina said.  What is meant by that?  Machine class case.  We are not yet another observe for in so the stakeholders are expected to contribute further to improve the tool so it's like a two‑way approach.  We are aiming to be inclusive and global and local at the same time maybe I'm going to stress this theme because we are going to relate to it later on.  One of the objectives of GIPO is developing a sustainable basis for collaboration between online observatories and other networks for a long‑term perspective and this is why we analyze these main areas of pending needs for cooperation between observatories and stakeholders.

So moving to the observatory tool itself.  So this is the link to the GIPO observatory tool.  You can connect to it on your own computer maybe it's easier this way.  I'm going to try to do it here, but I don't know whether we will see it on the screen.  May I ask the technical team to help us show the tool on the screen?

  We are trying to show the tool to the public on the screen.  Can you help us?  Unfortunately we cannot show it to you.  So I will do it for you now.  So you will see on the screen, can I show it one more time if it's possible?  So this is the, this is the link to the, to the tool itself.  I encourage you to look it up on mobile or on your computer so if you access the tool, you will see that there are three options so first of all, you can, you are going to try to go through it.  I'm going to use the presentation to do it, but now I see ‑‑ we have a real problem with the presentation.  So I will show you how it looks not on line.  So as you can see, you can see the tool, you can browse by different issues.  The issues are structure around the taxonomy, we use the taxonomy of other experience initiatives, DiploFoundation and we decided to base it on this one.  You will see that you have different options so you can browse through different issues, but you can also browse for different tasks depending on the topic in question.

The GIPO observatory tool has additional function.  It allows you to visualize and customize the information.  That you can find when you click on dashboard.  It's on the top right side of the GIPO tool.  So this is how it looks.  I'm showing it right now on the screen.  This is one of the screen shots, but you can actually see that you have the option to choose the word coverage so it doesn't have to be the map of the whole world.  It can be a map of Africa or Europe.  You can choose the topics of your interest by search queries, you can also observe if you go to the bottom of the dashboard, you are going to see how frequent different topics were mentioned across different areas and issues.  So what the dashboard helps you to do, it helps you to spot the burning issues of the day, the search of topics of your interest and allows you to see in which countries and regions your topics or unfolding most often in the time of your search.

Here you have also the link to the dashboard itself.  You can check it out.  But what GIPO Observatory Tool allows is to have options and create tailor‑made observations for different stakeholders.  So as you can see here, depending on the skills that different stakeholders have, they can use different functionalities of GIPO.  So with basic HTML skills you have RSS feed option, then if you have basic developer skills you can have AP and developers and for advanced developers you can use advanced functionalities.  And I will try to cover it a little bit.

What we actually are providing is the ability to connect the tool to your website.  So using RSS feeds and the GIPO app, you can customize GIPO functionalities according to your interest.  Now, how to do it exactly, you can also go to the GIPO tool and on the right‑hand side you have an open data section, and then you have the explanation of how exactly to do that.  So if you, if you, after this presentation you still have problems, I encourage you to go there.

But in general, for the first option, every page has an RSS feed and it is embedded in a website.  Here is the example how you can embed it.  You can create kind of like your own small observatory on your website.  So you can use GIPO observatory tool to automate it, and incorporate it into existing website.  So it can help you to actually focus on curation of information rather than searching for it, and at the same time, you have a live feed of the information that you can provide to your users.

And how can you do that?  You can copy the link of the RSS feed, you with base the link into the RSS Widget and put it into the code of your home page.  We have is option of advanced API.  We will not go into details because it's complicated but it allows you to fully customize to your own needs.  It allows you also to create new products based on GIPO observatory tool, some mobile applications, the world is full of opportunities.  It actually depends on your creativity how you want to use it.  So we are going to show you the example of the customized dashboard.  I told you that the dashboard can be customized to stakeholders' needs.

So this example was done forget with the African Civil Society on Information Society.  Forget with them we customized the GIPO observatory tool to, and put it into the website to monitor Internet Governance policy in Africa.  So this is how it looks.  As you can see, the dashboard changed a little bit, so it only covers African area.  I would show it to you live, but unfortunately right now I cannot.  But I encourage you to go into the access website and here you should be able to see the customized dashboard as well.  So what are the next steps for GIPO right know?

What we are trying to do we are focusing on continually developing the tool, releasing improved versions.  As you can see, this is not the end of the project.  We still have one year to go.  And this is a process.  This is a continuing process of improvement based on stakeholder's comments.  We are continuing to promoting the tool to stakeholder to all of you still feel that a lot of people need to know about it.  We really want to continue to be among observatories and one of the important issues to insure the sustainability of the tool in the future and I think maybe Cristina will talk more about it.  We have some first initial collaborations, talks with IGF and we already even deployed some kind of pilot with them, but I'm going to let Cristina to cover the topic later on.  So one more thing because Cristina told you that we are relying on stakeholders also goes for the improvement of the tool and provision of sources.

On the GIPO observatory tool website, on the right‑hand side you can see the section for sources.  You can see all of the sources that are there, and you can add to additional sources.  We still need your help in improving the tool and please, if you see that something is missing, tell us about it.

>> Christine:  Thank you Kasia.  I will come back later on what you mentioned about the future sustainability of the tool.  I would like first to give the floor to Andrea and maybe in the meantime you could check if we managed to have access to the tool so that we can play with it while we discuss about it.  So thank you.  Andrea, the floor is yours.

>> ANDREA CALDERARO:  Thank you, Cristina.  I am Andrea Calderaro, Director of Center for digital politics and university.  I am pleased to serve as member of Advisory Group for GIPO.  It might be worth to spend a few words on the role of the Advisory Group which has a key component of the observatory.  The Advisory Group has the role to advise, of course, the development of the platform and also to feed the platform with contents about Internet policy developments happening worldwide.  Because of this, members of the Advisory Group have been selected based on their expertise and passion for Internet Governance issues, but also based on their geographical distribution, meaning that we do have members based in Australia and North America, Latin America and so on.

The idea is, of course, to gather information about policy developments happening in each region, and at the same time to bring the global, the platform to the ground to link, to facilitate links between the development of the platform with what is happening, again, on the ground.  And these, of course, are important because it says a lot about the nature of GIPO that it's an initiative conceived and supported by the European Commission, but it is a tool that expects as ambition to be platform useful for the global Internet Governance community.  And the role, of course, of GIPO is to map as we said all of the fragmented discourse around the Internet Governance.  Internet Governance I believe most of the people in the room agree it has become more complex day by day than ten years ago when the conversation was clustered around thinking about the first World Summit Information Society, the Internet Governance debate was led by industrialized and most important already connected countries.

So there was more discussion where about how to connect countries instead of discussing how to regulate it the Internet.  Ten years after we know that most countries are likely now connected, and this is a great news, and this, of course, increased the number of actors involved in the debate, which is a good thing.  So and at the same time it boosted a lot of production of documents or regulatory initiatives and policy documents feeding and animating the Internet Governance.  At the same time we know that the number of events have increased a lot.  We discussed Internet Governance, which is a good thing because it brings the debate to the ground and may easier facilitate the link between the Internet Governance negotiations and debate with the different communities, but at the same time have made the amount of information and making the debate somehow unmanageable or it's going to be difficult to be managed especially from people, from new actors, actors that expect to try to catch up with this discussion, with the debate, and try to understand how speak up and occupy taking a role in such a negotiation and so on.

So the idea of GIPO is not to produce new documents and not to produce now how‑toes and guidelines because we do have enormous amounts of documentation and this information is likely available on line, but to make the information more usable and more accessible and to somehow facilitate the, again, a community to increasingly occupy a role in such a discussion, global discussion.

So because of this it isn't mean that GIPO is doing this, still is there is a lot of work to do from a technical aspect, technical perspective, but also with, anyway, it's important to understand that GIPO is also fed by the users themselves in terms of increasing the numbers of sources that GIPO can rely on so that, of course, is really important always to bear in mind.

In terms of sustainability, of course, there is said that there are many things to do from a technical perspective, but also GIPO needs to also stay alive over time which is important.  We know that most of the problems, there are likely a lot of problems around which is a great thing, again, the good element of GIPO is that it somehow is sustainable because it's a crawler, so it doesn't need the many people like man power to feed the platform.  And but at the same time, again, it needs to be sustainable in long term.

So we know that most of the times when there is a project, people are excited about it, they invest energy and passion and but after a bit this project tends to disappear.  And so that's something that cannot really happen with GIPO.  So this is, the challenge over the next year is this project and the discussion that is happening and that's it from my side for the moment.

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you.  Andrea.  I think we are going to open the floor for questions, remarks, and discussion.  In the meantime, we manage to project the tool on the screens.  I don't know, Kasia, if you want to briefly say something because I was hoping that to show really the tool.  I think that's the most important thing.  We can talk and talk, but it's important to have a look at the tool and understand how it works and what could be most interesting for you as well.

>> KASIA JAKIMOWICZ:  So briefly, I will show you the tool itself.  Let's go to home to show you the first page.  So this is the first page of the GIPO tool.  You can broad through different issues so let's click, threats go through the journey, for example.  So you see the number of all of the results so far.  Then on your right‑hand side, you are going to see the other issues but you are also going to see the talks so how the information structure according to different talks.  If you look at the results you will always see the source and the GIPO observatory tool will link you to the initial sort and then you will see the tags used for the information.

The information is structured along the tags so you have two levels of taxonomy.  So you have the issues, the basic structure, and then each of the topics is actually tag and the tag are assigned to different issues.  So the underlying structure are always tag.  You can also search for information depending on, so I can click on some tag.  You are going to see how many results of the specific tag.  And it would be the economic issue.  Now, we can also narrow search and go for specific regions so we can see how this information shapes for Europe.  So moving on, what I also showed you is the dashboard.  So it's a little bit more dynamic way of showing information.  I mentioned that you can actually customize it so I'm going to try to customize it for you right now.  This is how it looks on the GIPO Internet observatory tool, but you can also decide what you want to have inside or not so you can have search results here.  You can decide which queries you want to have or not, and then you can decide which kind of dashboard elements you want to have or not.  I'm going to try to show one if possible.  Then you can structure it.  It's not going to be very organized right now, but I will show you that you can decide which kind of elements you want to have on your side so you don't have to have everything there.

Now, we don't want to see the whole thing.  We mentioned Africa before.  We can go to Africa one more time.  As you see for Net Neutrality, we don't have too much information.  But that was for Africa and then we see the time, so we can see what is over time.  And then it shows you the results.  You can check how many results are for specific countries in the specific topic.  Then you can still limit your choices, and then you can decide how the information is displayed as well.  You can export the information by clicking this button, or you can configure the information. So, for example, I can decide that on my website I'm going to -- I just want to have, for example, ten information per page and it's expanding and it's crawling.  So when you go down, you will see also how the search results by issues are shaping, so it's kind of a small, and you can see what are the most frequent acts characterizing the issue.  But we can also as I told you before decide that this is not something that we want to have, and we can move it around.  So this is a more fun visual side to show you how you can actually use the tool if you want to incorporate it into your website.  We did it for Africa.  I'm going to search for the one that is ‑‑ it was this website, here is what we have on African Internet of observatory.  This was done in cooperation with axis using the GIPO observatory dashboard.  Now, let's come back.

I mentioned there are different other options just to show you what I was mentioning before.  You can add sources.  So here is the list of sources, you can see what is inside and you can add also sources.  It's very important to remember that this is an automated tool so you are going to ask yourself why some sources are not there.  We are trying to make this tool as automated as possible.  That means that the sources have to be in the machine readable format.

It's a kind of education process for us also to tell all of the observatories mapping initiatives or repositories that they should provide information in the machine format for the reuse of other observatories for synergies of the future.  Now, I mentioned also open data.  So hire you are going to have all of the information on how to use RSS feeds, APIs, et cetera, so you can use this link to get technical details and we also provide support.

You can get the get started guide which is available in English here.  One person thing that was mentioned when we were working on the GIPO observatory tool that there is a need for local lank wages.  So initially the tool was meant only for two languages, English and Spanish but we decided to expand this option.  We are not translating all of the information, but we are providing the option for very easy translation of information.  So if you are in a country where you cannot use English or Spanish, you can also use other languages.  I don't know whether it's on the website, but there is going to be an explanation how to do it very soon.

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, Kasia and just pinning all on the last point on languages, we also have French.  It is really to provide the tool in the six official UN languages that includes Chinese and Russian.  This poses some challenges but the idea is that the tool, that the interface is multilingual and all of the metadata, the tags and all of the information that the tool provides automatically will be in these different languages, not the content itself that the tool is going to collect and analyze.  I hope you have an idea of the potentialities of this tool.  There are other functions that we could not go into too much detail, but I invite you to explore the tool.  One important aspect is that the GIPO tool is sort of the engine, the tool that really collects the information from the sources, and automatically analyzes it.

That means assigns, tags, and puts information in different categories and the dashboard is the visualization, the visual display of that information and it happens in real time.  So I would now like to open the floor if there are any comments, discussions, and also my colleague wants to make an announcement more than anything else because we are going to keep presenting and discussing GIPO also in other important Internet Governance venues, but maybe first we could open the floor, see if anybody would like to come in.

>> CLAIRE SIBTHORPE:  My name is Claire and I work for Google.  I have a question, do you have statistics on the use of the flat form?  Do you know in which country it's mostly used and which other countries may be lagging behind in the use?

>> KASIA JAKIMOWICZ:  We don't have it now but we can send it later on, the GIPO tool is in the development phase so until very recently the number of sources was not very big in size.  So we are in the stage where we are really working on the quality of sources.  It's already a huge number of sources and now it's, it's starting to be used, but I can share the information.  I need to ask technical team.

>> MODERATOR:  No more questions, remarks?  You are shy?  Otherwise we can go on and explain how while we were developing GIPO, we realized that many other platforms and initiatives are, you know, mushrooming in the Internet Governance environment, and so the fact that it took us some time also to get this project rolling and to start with the development, it allowed us to really understand what the other observatories are, were doing, the other initiatives and try to find synergies and not to duplicate our work and our efforts.

And I think this has been a very fruitful and useful experience, and I think tomorrow there is going to be another session on the interaction that we had with among different similar but different initiatives which in the end are trying to make use of the ICT and of the Internet facilitate our work as we have to address Internet Governance issues.  So, of course, all of these initiatives have different purposes, different objectives depending on their focus, but I think also it has been very useful to exchange best practices and to see how do you deal with these very technical and practical issues and can we learn from your experience and then move forward?  So I think that was also a very interesting experience.  Do we have somebody participating remotely?  Yes.

>?   REMOTE PARTICIPANT:  The question is how can we contribute at GIPO?  What is procedure?  How can we contribute to GIPO and what is the procedure for doing it?

>> MODERATOR:  I don't know what kind of initiative was asking actually depending on the stakeholder, but if you want to cooperate with us you can always on a more strategic basis you can contact me or GIPO team for further contributions and, of course, you can also contribute by adding the tool, adding the sources to the tool and using the tool and deploying it on your website as well, but in terms of strategic collaboration and further developments and help in deploying the tool, you can contact me.

I'm going to give you the address at the very end of the presentation.  Mother question?

>> KSIA JAKIMOWICZ:  Maybe I can ask that the involvement of users is very important because they can tell us what they like and don't like and how we can make the tool even better for their needs, and then simply spreading the information because the more people who will go to this tool, then the use, the more useful it will become.  So just a point on that.  And then if there are no other specific questions or remarks, please feel free to jump in or to interrupt me.  Yes, question?

>> AUDIENCE:  My name is Case Gay I'm associate professor after university.  I'm teaching linguistics there.  Can you do cross language statics on a specific issue, a topic?  Say, if some issue is discussed in many languages, I want to know the statistic, total statistics rather than statistics for each language?  So if, say, some topic is discussed in Russian, some topic is discussed in Chinese and English and French.

So I want to aggregate the statistics if that's available, that would be very good.

>> MODERATOR:  I think it's a very, very interesting and relevant question.  I'm not sure I have the answer.  This is something we should check for sure.  I know that, for instance, from my point of view as a user, I would find interesting to be able to navigate content which is, for instance, in Chinese, a language I don't speak and I don't understand, but to have an idea of what are the main issues being addressed?  What are the main topics?  And so in one language even if it's not my language, I could get useful data and information about the cross language element, I think it's very useful and I would need to check with our technical team and definitely I think it's something useful.

Orc wise you would need to ‑‑ otherwise you would need to first do research in one language and another language and so on.  So maybe the tool already has the capability to do the cross language analysis, but I would need to check.  Thank you for the question.

>> AUDIENCE:  I actually think that it does.  It does this, I mean, the platform is designed to recognize metadata across multiple languages.  And the five or six, the six languages for sure and the idea is to expand the number of languages.  So when you are going on the dashboard, you can see already in the map.  In the map that was shown before, the color of the country is, of course, based on the number of times, number of documents existing on the specific issues related to that specific country.  So the map doesn't show exactly the percentage but the color is indicative of the percentage.  So that's one of the main utility of GIPO is to recognize and to compare how, for example, the issues of Net Neutrality is discussed, how many documents consider Net Neutrality and in a specific context is discussed worldwide.  Probably one of the things of GIPO is in the long term to include some linguistic entity with expertise.

>> AUDIENCE:  Mark hover, U.K. Government, thanks very much Cristina and the team for presenting the update on the development of this very important tool as it's now launching.  I have two questions.  First of all, cooperation with other observatories, and certainly I would support the sharing of best practice about observatories and how they can manage and collect data and make it more accessible and facilitate and maintain the visibility of information about specific initiatives.  I have just come from a meeting in Strasbourg, the audio video observatory there associated with the Council of Europe.  Is there, for example, an opportunity to develop some cooperation there because they have long experience with that observatory, so a comment about that would be useful to know, particularly in context of Human Rights and so on.  And secondly, this strikes me as a very valuable tool for the national and regional Internet Governance Forums that we are well aware of across the world.

Would the individual national regional IGFs be able to use this and tailor their use of it to improve their access as they are identifying issues and developing dialogue on specific issues? This tool would, I think, greatly enhance their understanding of what's going on elsewhere.  Do you have a developing approach to insure that this is picked up by all of the national and regional IGFs?  Thank you.

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, Mark, for your remarks.  On your last question, absolutely, yes.  They can do it and they can do it the national and regional IGFs if they have a platform, they can embed the tool in a very, very easy way.  They can do it like, you know, we did it also with the African association, but it really required like one day to do it or even less.  One hour.  Okay.  So it's really easy.

>> KSIA JAKIMOWICZ:  We deployed is with the Internet Governance Forum payment as well so it's really a very quick fix.

>> MODERATOR:  In that sense, maybe just to connect to what you were saying at the beginning, is in the sense we see the IGF, the global Internet Governance Forum as the idea house for GIPO because of the connects with the national and regional IGFs..  So in that sense that is why we are discussing this with the IGF Secretariat and people at UN/DESA.  They are interested because as IGF has ten more years or nine, I don't know, nine more years, they also need the tools and to be up to date with new developments.

So IGF has now a new website.  They are already testing the API, which is the most advanced feature that we currently have, and it worked well.  So now we are discussing, you know, how we could possibly have this transfer of ownership of the tool.  So let's see, I think this would be the ideal solution really for the global community.  We are also aware that things are also not always easy because of the complexity of the IGF Secretariat and structure but also us as European Commission.  So we are looking at possible alternatives.  So that's where we are at the moment.

But in any case, national and regional IGFs can already connect no matter where the tool will be hosted.  So, and it will not, you know, there are no specific requirements concerning a server or a space or whatever.  They just have a link to the tool which is embedded in their website.  So it's a very light solution.

>> KASIA JAKIMOWICZ:  Thank you very much for the questions.  One of the achievements of GIPO initiative is that we connect it all together with other initiatives.  We all connected together.  We initiated the process last year.  We had the first meeting and mapping of all of the observatories, the mapping initiatives, and then 12 different observatories participated.  I invite you to the meeting tomorrow at the same time at 9:00 when all of the, when four observatories initiatives come together to discuss the new mapping of the initiatives.  So we are trying to connect everybody together to find new suspects and educate each other about, on the possibilities of further cooperation.  So tomorrow at 9:00.

>> MODERATOR:  And also just to conclude on your first question, and I don't recall the exact name of the audio visual observatory.  We are in touch with them as well so we have already discussed with them how we can work together, and also to conclude there will be more opportunities to discuss about GIPO, to see how it works and for sure we will be arranging more discussions also in the context of the EuroDIG meeting next year.  So my colleague, maybe, would like to say the dates and the venue of next EuroDIG.  Thank you.

>> AUDIENCE:  Thank you very much.  I am happy to invite you to come to Tallinn in June 2017.  EuroDIG.  It's the tenth anniversary of EuroDIG so it's very important meeting.  All of the information is available on the website of EuroDIG which is EuroDIG.org and also the flyers which we just distributed, is there you will also find all of the most important dates on the way to EuroDIG because everybody is invited to contribute already now there are calls for issues open on the website and there are some important meetings and benchmarks also until the 6 and 7 of June when it takes place.  So and there is also, there is also a quiz, the lottery will take place tomorrow evening.  The main prize is a trip to Tallinn so it's worth it to try to make the quiz.  All of the questions are not the most easy, but that's why it's especially good.

I don't know if you have any questions.  Please do not hesitate to approach me later, and ask, and we also are here together with the Secretary‑General of EuroDIG.  So we are both very much available to answer to all of your questions later and during IGF.  And the registration is open for also for the 31stof January meeting.

All participants all over Europe and more are invited, and the call for issues is open until 31st of December, so please just take a minute and present your issue on the website, something that you would like to see and hear to be discussed during the EuroDIG.  So thank you very much.

>> AUDIENCE:  The prize said trip to Tallinn.  So I think.

It should be corrected, trip to Tallinn, the capital of Estonia.  Less exotic, but it's the best time to be there in June.  Thanks.

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much. 

(Concluded at 1000).