IGF 2016 - Day 3 - Room 9 - Asia Pacific Community Meet-Up (APrIGF Open Session)


The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Eleventh Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Jalisco, Mexico, from 5 to 9 December 2016. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 



>> MODERATOR:  We will get started anyway actually because I wanted to welcome everyone to this open meeting.  And I wanted to start with a round of introductions around the room and I don't think we need ‑‑ we don't really need the Webcast and so forth for that.  Oh, we are on.  Okay.  All right.  Welcome, everyone, this you would have noticed is an open meeting of the APrIGF, the Asia‑Pacific IGF.  It's been held as an informal meeting for a few years now and in some sense it's also considered as an open meeting of the multistakeholder steering groups of the Asia‑Pacific regional IGF, but everyone is welcome and to that end I wanted to start with a quick round of introductions around the room.  We can't take too long, so please, it would be interesting for everyone here to know everyone's name and where you are from.  Also can I ask have you been to an APrIGF on the multistakeholder steering group?  But just keep it short, please, so that we can cover the room.  So there is a roving mic here.  Could we just start with the first person?  You can give a mic to them.

>> AUDIENCE:  Pencs from TS NIC.  So I have been to APrIGF once in Macao.  I am from TTCOD.

>> AUDIENCE:  Case from academia and APrIGF twice, I suppose in Taiwan and in Tokyo.

>> AUDIENCE:  Good morning, I'm Jeffrey Reiento, Philippines.  I joined, this is my first time to join as an IGF recipient award.

>> AUDIENCE:  Mark, from Philippines, I am newcomer here.

>> AUDIENCE:  Datish, Japan.  I have been here several times.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, everyone, Hurang Hungry.  Nice to be here.  I haven't been to APrIGF, but I will try to go next year.

>> AUDIENCE:  David from Asia organisation.  I have been to fourth time at the APrIGF and have been organising for IGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, Usr from Jakarta chapter, I have not been to APrIGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  My name is Sindy from Indonesia IGF, and this is my first APrIGF gathering.  Looking forward to it.

>> AUDIENCE:  Chad Gizor from the Phillipines I'm with MSG.

>> AUDIENCE:  Nisha from IGF and I went to APrIGF in Macao.  Thank you.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, Claudia from Mexico, and this is my first time in IGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, this is Mohed from India/UA.  I live in UA.  I come from ISOC UA chapter and I have attended two APrIGF in Macao and Taipei.

>> AUDIENCE:  Center for communication Government in New Delhi.  I have attended the last APrIGF in Taipei.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, Alisa Sigetti Uruguay, first time here.

>> SIENNA PERRY: Sienna Perry from APNIC, this is my first IGF and I have not been to an APrIGF yet.

>> AUDIENCE:  Ping Wong from Singapore, I also attended the last APrIGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, Ty‑ty from Myanmar.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, Emilice Williams Australian Government, this is my first IGF and I haven't been to an APrIGF either.

>> AUDIENCE:  Dan Worthington, International Federation of Journalists the Asia‑Pacific office.  My first IGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  Raymond from Hong Kong, Ambassador from Hong Kong.

>> AUDIENCE:  It is our first time to join the IGF and we are zero and APrIGF.  I'm Samuel.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, I'm Gian, MSG member and I attended two APrIGFs and organized two Y IGFs.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello.  Heeli Repti from Hong Kong youth IGF and this is my first time here.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, I'm Vanessa, first IGF.

>> SATHEES BABU SILVANANDAN HELLIKATTUVELI:   Hi, I'm Sathees Babu Sivanandan Hellikattuveli, Chair of ICANN at large, I'm part of the APrIGF MSG and I'm from India.

>> AUDIENCE:  Good afternoon, this is (Indiscernible) Transparency International Cambodia.  It is my first time in the IGF community.

>> MARK WALLOM:  Hi, I'm Mark Wallom, American Bar Association rule of law initiative based in Manila Philippines we conduct a regional program on Internet freedom in 6 ASEAN countries as well as Sri Lanka and regional IGF in Taipei this year.

>> MAUREEN HILLIARD:  I'm Maureen Hilliard, Cocoa Islands and I think this is my fourth IGF, and I have been to as many, I think, Asia‑Pacific regional IGFs as well, and I'm on the MSG.

>> AUDIENCE:  Sophia Morales I'm from Mexico, but I live in Singapore.  I'm working at National University of Singapore and I'm a member of the chapter in Singapore, the ISOC chapter.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, Sun Tuesin, I am from Bhutan, first IGF, thank you.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello my name is (Indiscernible) and I'm here on behalf of (Indiscernible).

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, Leonid, Moscow, Russia but I work in Asia‑Pacific as general manager of APLTID, four or five IGFs.

>> SONAM JAMTSHO:   I'm Sonam Jamtsho from Bhutan, I work in Civil Society in Bhutan and this is my first time for IGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, everyone, Jordan Casher, Internet NSED, this is my fourth IGF and I have been to one APrIGF in Singapore in 2011.

>> ANDREW URE:   Hi, my name is Andrew Ure.  I'm from Google.  I manage our trade and economic affairs in Asia‑Pacific, and I'm a first timer.

>> RAJESH CHHARIA:   Rajesh Chharia, ISP Association of India attended 5 to 6 IGF and attended all APrIGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  Ismai from Tokyo, my eleventh IGF and I went to most of the APrIGFs except the last one in Taipei.

>> XIAODONG LEE:  Xiaodong Lee CE (Indiscernible) in the past years I only missed two IGF meetings.  I'm an IGF MAG member, but I have never been to APrIGF.  But there is a lot of people from my organisation that join the IGF.  I hope next time.  Next time.  You give me an invitation.

>> AUDIENCE:  This is Zimik from Malaysia I join IGF as fellow.  I'm MSG.

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm doing AP6 colonial Internet Governance and I'm in MSG.  Participated Taipei IGF and this is my first time in IGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, this is Hare.  I'm working with an international corporation under the Ministry of Digital Economy and Society Thailand.  We work as Government agency EGDA.  Nice to meet you all.

>> CHARLOTTE YIM YONG:  Hello, Charlotte Yim Yong from Thailand Association for the Blind invited by Edar.

>> AUDIENCE:  Nat Woods, Thailand as well, I have been invited as a speaker here, invited by Thailand to speak about technology for the blind that we developed in Thailand.

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello I am checking the Web ex.  I will tell you.

>> NOELLE DE GUZMAN:   I am Noelle De Guzman, Asia‑Pacific Bureau of the internet society.

>> AUDIENCE:  Nuwait, I'm ‑‑ 3 IGF, two APrIGF I'm also a MAG member.

>> EDMON CHUNG:  DotAsia based in Hong Kong have been participating at IGF and APrIGF since the beginning in various capacities.

>> JENNIFER CHUNG:    Jennifer Chung.

>> YANNIS LI:  Hi, this is Yannis Li from the Secretariat with DotAsia.  Happy to see you here.

>> AUDIENCE:  I am Paul, I have been to 10 IGFs so I have been to all of the APrIGFs.

>> AUDIENCE:  Seita, Indonesia Internet Governance Forum.  My 5th IGF and first time IGF in Taipei.

>> IRENE POETRANTO:    Hi, Irene Poetranto Citizen Lab Effort of Toronto, MSG member.

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm Jenny, youth representative from the HKY IGF and this is my first time here.

>> MODERATOR:  Is there anyone else who would like to say a word?  We will have one or two remote participants.  Can they speak to us?

>> AUDIENCE:  Echan from Hong Kong University, first IGF and first APrIGF.

>> AUDIENCE:  Andrew from Electronic Frontiers, Australia.

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, everyone.  Welcome again, and welcome especially to the newcomers.  It's fantastic to see so many people who have been to none or just one or two IGFs already and APrIGFs and I hope he will fix that soon with more IGFs that come in the future.  You may have for those who came late, I asked those people in the audience who are members of the MSG to identify themselves.  Now, the MSG is the multistakeholder steering group.  It's an open and inclusive group that anyone is welcome to join, though I also hope that we might have after this meeting a few more members of the MSG who volunteer their time and support to the MSG.  And if so, please speak to myself or Yannis.  Without further ado, we have reports from Yannis and Jennifer from the Secretariat about latest updates from the Secretariat.  Actually, let's have a look at the agenda first.  We have spent a bit of time on introductions.  I think that is worthwhile.

What we do have a couple of reports about the past and coming APrIGFs and in particular the outcome of the most recent IGF in Taipei.  Then we won't have 40 minutes, but there is an opportunity for open discussion, and there are some suggested topics there, and you could take a look and see if any of those interest you to raise any questions or make any remarks and please feel free to do so or for that matter don't limit yourself to this list when the time comes.

Let's hand over to Yannis Li now for the first report, thank you.

>> YANNIS LI:  Hi, everyone.  So this is Yannis Li speaking for the record.  Just a very brief introductions of the Asia‑Pacific IGF.  Basically we run annually for three days, for about a four day Conference, so we gather all of the multistakeholder around Asia‑Pacific to come to discuss about the issues that are more pertaining to our region and helping to drive some, to drive some more advancement in our region.  So as part of the Asia‑Pacific regional initiative one of the core elements we have annually is the Youth IGF Cambodia that we have run parallel where the APrIGF so we are trying to engage local university students as well as the university students around the region.  And then we also have the Asia‑Pacific Internet internship program which is a one‑day initiative on the day zero of the event which is aiming for the newcomers to for capacity building.

And so we actually initiate interest in intent to Hong Kong.  It has been running through seventh year.  You can see we are rotating in different cities every year from Hong Kong to Singapore, Tokyo, Seoul, Delhi, Taipei, and so each year we actually have increased, from Hong Kong we have only two days event, so along the years we became a bigger scale from two days to right now a four day Conference and we also have formalized our organisations with the MSG, the multistakeholder steering group that Paul just mentioned so its a very open group that anyone interested to join the discussions and also to help run these organisations can, are welcome to join us.  Right now Paul, Paul Wilson is our Chair and we also have two choice Chairs which unfortunately is not able to come here.  So they are casting from Hong Kong, Erin Sikuna from India.  So we have a set of operating principles for this MSG.  And they are basically with an emphasis on the openness, transparency and multistakeholder cooperation.

So we currently have about 85 members listed on line and you can see the distributions of the gender and stakeholder groups so under the MSG we form different committees like program committee, fellowship committee every year to run the program and also we have the drafting committee for the document.  So we will do monthly teleconferences or biweekly conferences and also meet face to face like now in IGF.  So the only meeting archives are open and on line so you can go to APR draft Asia if you want to take a look and are interested.  How can you engage in APrIGF, so we are going to open our workshop proposals, call for proposal so you can organize the sessions at our events, of course, and also organize any tutorials for the API piece on day zero, and then we also have fellowships since 2015 the met call meeting so you can apply for that to come in person and also contribute to the synthesis document drafting process.  So the synthesis document is a new experiment that we started in 2015 hoping to engage more, a wider Asia‑Pacific community to join us and to tell us what is the issues that are concerned and Jennifer later on will talk more about that one.

And then, of course, there is an opportunity that you can come join the MSG and help the decision making process and you can also review all of the past activities on our main website that you can see there.  And then, so coming up next year, so we have our Bangkok to host the 2017 meeting so it is hosted by Hong Kong university and MPTC Thailand.  So the days are still to be confirmed but it will be likely late July so stay tuned with us and try to apply a fellowship or submit workshop proposals.  And also we are opening a call for local proposals for our 2018 meeting which is the deadline is on the 6th of February, 2017.  So please do host of the APrIGFs in your city.  And also please stay in touch with you if you want to receive any news or announcements you can subscribe to announce at APrIGF DotAsia list where the stakeholders will share news and updates and discuss issues together.  For any inquiries, of course, you can contact the Secretariat with SEC@APrIGF DotAsia and we also want to collaborate more with any local IGF initiatives so you already have one running in your country, please do contact us and we can collaborate more.  And that's basically, and also I wanted to know that we are circulating the name list, a paper that for people to fill out their contact so please do feel that out so we can stay connected.  Thank you.

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you Yannis Li.  That's fantastic.  Any questions about that report?  Okay.  Next Jennifer will be talking about the outcome document from the last APrIGF which was also presented during the NRI session here yesterday.

>> JENNIFER CHUNG: Good afternoon, everyone.  Myna simple Jennifer Chung, I'm part of the APrIGF Secretariat team and here I will give you a brief update on the Taipei census document.  So Yannis Li gave you a brief mention of the Taipei census document.  It is the second time we have had this.  The first time we had it was in 2015 at the Macao meeting.

It is a synthesis of everything discussed at the Macao meeting and was used as the Asia‑Pacific regional input into the global IGF intersessional work which is the policy options for Connecting the Next Billion.

So this year at the Taipei meeting, we had the same set of down hall sessions and also a lot of editing going on with the same, with the thought that we would also contribute from the Asia Pacific region the second phase of this policy options for connecting and enabling the next billion phase 2.

At the Taipei meeting we held two town hall sessions and it was very active participation.  In fact, at the meeting, we were also told by a lot of participants that they wish there were more sessions they could engage in and also contribute to the document.  So what we actually did for the document this time, learning from the Macao, the year previous, we had a pre meeting draft.  So it was draft zero which was opened for public comment on a platform that looks like this.  If anybody has gone to NETmundial or is familiar with the word press type platform, the document itself is on there and each Paragraph you are able to, you know, comment and suggest edits.  We did that for the pre meeting draft we had it open for the entire meeting and we did receive a lot of comments, after the Taipei meeting we also had a public comment session so people can continue to give their ideas and recollect what was actually spoken to, or spoken about or discussed at the Taipei  meeting.  We received 181 public comments in total across all three drafts which is quite a high number.

So in the Taipei synthesis document, we did pull out six topics, so you can see on the screen there, the first one is really the title of the intersessional work at the global IGF, so it's continuing efforts to bring the next billion online.  This is pertinent to the Asia‑Pacific region because a lot of the next billion coming on line will be coming from the Asia‑Pacific region.  The second topic we pulled out is security.

That is obviously a very big concern, and also the topic of a lot of the workshops held at the Taipei meeting.  The third is Human Rights and the Internet.  That is always a very big topic, very hot topic, and fourth is multistakeholder model.  Fifth is digital economy and trade, and the last is future impacts.

So what we are thinking about for the next year coming in 2017 is how to improve the synthesis document so we can include even more opportunities and even more ways for people not only participants in the APrIGF meeting, but also in the Asia‑Pacific, you know, Internet community at large to contribute and put their voices in the concerns that you feel are extremely important and key issues that you think we should be thinking about in the Internet Governance space.

So this is a very brief update on the synthesis document.  If you are interested in joining the drafting committee, which pretty much are a group of volunteers who come and kind of synthesize all of the comments received at the Taipei meeting, or I'm sorry, at the APrIGF meeting also from all of the online comments, please feel free to contact Yannis Li or myself and we will be happy to add you to the drafting committee list.  That's pretty much a volunteer list and a lot of the hard work is done by this committee.

Also a very brief update, and on the NRI main session.  So if you were at the NRI main session that was held yesterday afternoon, you would know that at the IGF this year, the NRIs have received a lot more visibility and a lot more I guess importance on the work that is done in the national and the regional initiatives.

We have had a large discussion on how we would want it to form the main session at the IGF and we had more than 40 national and regional IGFs sharing their discussions on a variety of topics, and it was for the APrIGF we spoke on access and Connecting the Next Billion, and from the other topics there was secure resilient and trusted Internet from the NRI perspectives.  The third topic was reliable and sustainable funding sources for the NRI events and the last topic that the NRI spoke on was challenges in how to create more awareness about Internet Governance at the national and regional levels and why stakeholders should be actively engaging.

So on these four topics over 40NRI speakers did speak on it and it was a very fruitful session.

>> MODERATOR:  Thanks very much, Jennifer.  If anyone has got any comments, questions, anything you would like to add, please feel free.  We will go back to the proposed discussion agenda now.  We have got about a half hour.  This is a chance to talk about any aspects of the APrIGF that are of interest and we thought in preparing for this meeting that there might be a few interesting topics.  So they are as follows.  The first one is how to encourage active participation on the MSG.  We have got, we have got quite a number of active members out of 85, I think it was on the MSG, but it could always be more and so ways to achieve that would be good to discuss.

The other thing is you may have noticed in the distribution of the membership we have got mostly technical, mostly Civil Society and then technical, not so many from the private sector in Government and I think we would all like to see a bit of balance across the stakeholder groups.  The next one is kind of pertinent to what we are seeing this week and I'm happy to see the crowd in this audience because it shows me that Asia‑Pacific participation in the IGF is getting better, but how could we do more?  And then how to strengthen the linkage and contribution between all of the different IGF meetings.  So Jennifer has given us a good account of what happened in the NRI session, but there is so much going on that it's kind of a challenge to strengthen that linkage at least for us in our region, the synthesis document is being put together with a lot of work to actually help to pass messages and information about what happens at the APrIGF into others.

So there is a few things that really I think we could dwell on for a while and they may well be other topics.  What do we think?  Adam.

>> MODERATOR:  If no one puts their hand up after I have finished speaking, I will have ask Adam to give the microphone to a person of his choice.

>> AUDIENCE:  I would like to jump to number two on the agenda and the thought is about private sector is always extremely difficult, but I wonder about the Governments in the region.  We have Vice Chair I think still of the GAC, but can we use the ICANN GAC membership of the region and try to encourage them on a regular basis to remind them that the process exists and also the Secretariat for the GAC, the GAC is the ICANN Government Advisory Committee and it's perhaps the Secretariat for the GAC is also Australian based.  So we could encourage them to put out occasional pieces of information and abuse that process a little bit, but it sort of might work.

That is, I think, all I can think of.  Thank you.  Who would like to speak next?

>> AUDIENCE:  With reference to the Government, I think we also try to encourage them, but the agenda also include AP TRD that we found some interception between the work that we need to do, so I think we have to think what Government should be and as I already having a flow so I would like to invite you to Thailand for the APrIGF it is host by somebody who had money in their pocket.  We don't have money.  We need 20 do the work.  So you like me to address in that APrIGF, please send a message to me.  We are the ones that really do the work together with national telecom broadcast organisation.  So I like to see some of the sessions be proposed at what are the issues we would like to address in the region.

>> AUDIENCE:  Maybe also in relation to number two since we will be in Bangkok, I wonder if there is also a case to invite, to talk to (Indiscernible) especially the ICT section that looks at all of these issues.  I was there a week ago to do a gender training with the ICT section and I think there could be some interest there.

>> AUDIENCE:  Thank you.  I think getting the private sector and the Government to be involved in the APrIGF is important, but I also think what's more important is to get the much more Civil Societies to get involved in that because I come from Myanmar and I think it's the same from many Southeast Asia countries that it's difficult for us to participate in IGF.  That's why APrIGF and local IGFs are there.  And then on the other hand, it's important not only to be, to the groups working on the issue to attend but also we call them the main treatment Human Rights organisation to be able to participate in these kinds of APrIGF.  So if there are any initiatives and if there is a fellowship program that is allowing participation, I think, you know, you should also consider other Human Rights organisations, media organisations and that is not necessarily working on this issue to be engaged and to explore on what's happening on this Internet Governance process.

>> AUDIENCE:  I would like to go to number three and number four, perhaps.

, because at the international ‑‑ at the global IGF we had four national IGF, the Bangladesh, Japan, Sri Lanka, Indonesia.  Indonesia has held three national dialogue and one of the main issues that I feel a bit challenged, this is in my personal point of view is the majority of the discussion within the content.  One of the key initiatives that help us to understand more on the content is that we are collaborating with the GIP hub to discuss on the global train of the Internet Governance issues so I think that's also, I think if you would like to create more conversation, better conversation at the content level, we can also think about mainlily conditions of the process working together with organisations like the IP hub.

>> AUDIENCE:  I want to respond to number two.  I understand there is maybe not enough in the APrIGF, but the APrIGF has reached out to some Government officials because if you ask them, they will talk about can we do something together that may be possible to enhance the reputation.

>> AUDIENCE:  You said what I wanted to say.  Yes, to follow on what Adam said, especially with the Government, firstly is Indonesian Government is seemingly getting much more active and I on behalf of them invite you to come to the Open Forum tomorrow afternoon.  It will be fun.  And they have been put in a booth and they have two ministries of people attending.  And also give some sort of topic of our mutual interest within the, perhaps, next meeting.  For example, zero‑rating could be an interesting topic that Government alone cannot solve, but it's a mutual problem, and give some prominence as a speaker or that maybe is one way to put it.  The same may go through for a private sector that they need rationale to bother to come.  So I don't have any on the table solution as to the topic, but it's a good subject for the audience here and others.  When we were starting the APrIGF we really did a lot of outreach to the Governments of China, Korea and Japan and the ICANN GAC meetings, et cetera.

So I think that also could be continued, but as I mentioned, unless you have a real subject that they really have to come and bother, they will not, they are busy, and it's difficult for them to give their own rationale within their institutions.  That's my two cents.

>> AUDIENCE:  Satish for the record.  Two good points, one is about point three.  I would like to bring your attention to ICANN's numbers which just came out yesterday of the last meeting.  It is about 3100 plus, of which 70% list the region as Asia.  What it means for us is that there is a readiness and people interested in Internet Governance in Asia.  I don't know where the next IGF is going to be or when the next time it will come to Asia.  That would be the a good time for us to leaf rule the interest that exists in Asia‑Pacific.  The second point quickly is something that is not in this list, how does one encourage countries where there is no national IGF, for instance, India, big country, a lot of interest, but no IGF.  How does one increase that?  Thank you.

>> AUDIENCE:  KItani I want to touch on the point about having content available for the national IGF.  In Japan we say we have to set similar issue that we are able to cover the topics where we have the participants from Japan are covering, so, for example, INS transition or certain areas such as Net Neutrality, but then beyond that, it's like chicken and egg problem where we don't have people, so we don't get updated on other issues.

So I think what we are trying to do is listen to Diplos, webinars, prying to listen to discussions here or APrIGF, but then if there are specific initiatives that you are actually doing to get more expansion on the topics you are covering in the national IGF, you know, very interested to hear what you are doing and share practices.

>> AUDIENCE:  When the whole world is looking towards Asia for the next billion and especially when I'm talking about the next billion like andia and China.  Point third they fear IGF can work as a bridge between the IGF and countries who are not able to participate.  In regards to the end than IGF, (Speaking off microphone).

>> AUDIENCE:  It's not a free discussion.  I think it's a very big question.  So it's the same problem for so many Internet meetings from IGF so how to encourage the Asia‑Pacific participation is a problem.  If I recall my memory, I remember that in 2004 when IGF meeting happened in Korea.  After that so many people from Asia‑Pacific, especially from China attend meeting so after the ICANN meeting in 2013 Beijing, there is also more participants from China.  So maybe just mention the next IGF meeting.

I don't know when we will be having in Asia‑Pacific.  So if there is IGF meeting in East Asia, so maybable there is more people will join the IGF meeting from China, Japan, Korea.  And also for Asia, for APrIGF, I think it depends on what kind of ‑‑ if I look at it myself, why I cannot join the APrIGF because there are a lot of troubles.

So APrIGF can do something different with IGF, you know, in the past ten years there is a lot of talk in IGF.

So people want to do some kind of best practice or policy recommendation or something else.  So if APrIGF can do something in a different way as IGF and share some information or share some practice or policy recommendations, it would be better.  So it would attract so many people from Ghana to join.

But for privacy sector, I think it is a little bit difficult.  So I have some discussions ways that top leaders in the big Internet company in China, he have no big interest for Internet Governance.  They have big interest for the business.  To we need more time.

>> AUDIENCE:  Jung Pae for AP SIG.  I'm also participating in KR IGF, and we have the multistakeholder party will South Korea also.  Actually it was already covered but I want to add something more about kind of a possible session at the national IGFs and APrIGF.  So yesterday we have a session and I believe we had about five national and regional IGFs from Asia.  There was also central Asian IGF 2 and we have South Africa, Sri Lanka, Japan and Indonesian IGF as well as APrIGF. I think regularly at APrIGF, it's good to have the session on international IGFs, but even if you don't have national IGF, we can still report the national initiatives, right, multistakeholder activities.

So it will be good.  And maybe we can share the wider range of information too, the Internet related public process in their governance.  It's going to be a little bit a burden, but if you can accommodate, that would be really helpful.  And for the four agenda of the discussion, I want to talk about the stats, statistics.  The public statistics of the participants is, I believe, at APrIGF and the global IGF.

It's the same scene.  The breakdown of the gender and breakdown of the stakeholder and the global figure, the breakdown of the region kind of the continents but can we do more elaborating information, be more in public like how many each stakeholder participants from each nation, then make us to work on more, I mean, with the missing point.

So it is possible, but there is some concern on the public, the proper association of the information but we can find a good scheme on that, so it's possible it will be beneficial.

>> MODERATOR:  Has the cue run out.  Would anyone else ‑‑ Edmund.  I was going to have to ask Jung Pai to nominate someone.

>> AUDIENCE:  I wanted to respond to Jung Pai comment, I guess first of all, in terms of the statistics as you actually mentioned, we are very cognizant of privacy on that as well.  We have been reminded a few times when we think about it because when it becomes the number becomes one, then we know who that is that came from which country and what.  So but that's a good idea.  We will definitely take it back and try to figure out how best to think this through.  Perhaps in subregions as well, but we will need to take a look at the actual statistics and see how we can better report.

The topic on, that I think Saldung mentioned that's a good idea, but a couple of things.  One, we are trying to innovate, and we are, we have the synthesis document that is coming out as a pretty much an outcomes document, and we are hoping this will encourage more participation, and I think we don't want to congratulate ourselves yet, but it is working to a certain agree, when we see the participation from Macao and growing in Taipei and we hope that that will continue to grow in Bangkok.

There are a couple of other items that I think we can further innovate.  One of which is as Sodung mentioned maybe some kind of best practice or good practice because it's hard to say something is best practice in this area often, so maybe that's a very good idea.  The other area that I think would be useful perhaps in collaboration or in, you know, working with the many schools of Internet Governance around the region that is being developed, and we also have a what is called the APILP, the Internet leadership program that goes along with the APrIGF.  That may be, perhaps, last year we talked a little bit about it, but perhaps we need to put into practice allowing a stream of tutorials or kind of a learning or peer learning, really, because I think even though I have been participating from the beginning, there is a lot of things I want to learn as well, and every time I go into sessions, I learn something out of it.

So that, you know, best practice or good practice Forums or tutorials or those sessions is a very good idea.  So I think, I hope the program committee this year could take that into account and perhaps open a particular stream for those types of tutorials or good practice Forums.

So I think those ideas are good and we should take it back.

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you Edmund.  The cue seems to be over which is a good thing because we do need to vacate here on 2:30 sharp.  Very quickly.  Thanks.

>> AUDIENCE:  It's a comment.  I believe within the last two weeks we lost a good chance to participate with specifics because with the last election and Pacific, we lost the Pacific and Thailand.  I am not against Thailand, but we had a great chance to get participation in the Pacific Island if we had the APrIGF there, whether this election system works with these kinds of things the number of participations and from the regions, subregions.

>> MODERATOR:  That's a very good point and that's another good reason to be participating actively in the MSGs so you can have your inputs.  I am fairly sure that we will have the proposal back for 2018.  So let's wish them luck.  But it all comes through as you say.  Now, would do have to vacate here by 2:30.  I thought I would wrap up.  I'll ask Yannis Li and Jennifer if there is anything finally.  This is the biggest and most active of these meetings that we have had, so all credit to you. 

Thanks for speaking up and not needing to be volunteered to speak because that was great.  I want to take this opportunity now to also thank the APrIGF Secretariat hosted by DOT.Asia and Yannis Li and general term transmission are doing much more than their fair share of work for this DotAsia itself hosts the Secretariat and contribute greatly.  So I do want to acknowledge that because it's not just when the event is happening, it's through the year as well.


Now, Yannis Li also spoke before how you could participate in the APrIGF and how you could support, and I really, I would ask anyone here and everyone here to consider joining the steering group, joining the fellowship committee which is a selection committee and a steering committee for the fellowship program, and also the drafting committee for the synthesis document and the fellowship committee as well because all of those committees need people to do some work, not a lot of work, but some work to get the best results.

I wanted to mention one other very important way that anyone here could possibly help and that is to find sponsorship for the APrIGF.  One of the biggest sponsorship needs that we have is for the foal leship.  So as we heard before, the APrIGF can't, hasn't, for instance, been able to come to the Pacific, but through the fellowship program, we have actually been able to support Pacific participation, and the same goes for all of the region.  So, please, if anyone has got the ear of good companies or organisations who would like to sponsor, then please, that contribution would be really very important and very appreciated as well.

So Yannis Li, anything else?

>> YANNIS LI:  I wanted to ask if anyone knows where the circulation of the paper is, the name list?  If you haven't filled that out, please do fill that out and stay in contact with us.  Thank you.

>> MODERATOR:  Any final remarks or announcements?

>> AUDIENCE:  IGF do you know where it's going to be.

It's probably going to be in Geneva, some say try to reserve the hotel earlier before it goes up.  Some says let's see.  We don't know what it is going to be like, so be careful.  That's what I was told.

>> MODERATOR:  Thanks very much.

>> AUDIENCE:  One last remark, I was told that the writing is a little bit difficult to read, so if you don't mind please do leave your business card at the corner of that table.  It would be very helpful.  Thank you.

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much, everyone. 

(Concluded at 0226).