IGF 2016 - Day 4 - Room 2 - WS126 - Safe & Secure Cyberspace for Youth: Solutions for Asia & Africa


The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Eleventh Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Jalisco, Mexico, from 5 to 9 December 2016. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 


>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  I think the next session, Safe&Secure Cyberspace for Youth: Solutions for Asia and Africa, will take a little more time to be prepared, so just take your seat and just wait.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Okay.  Good morning.  Let's get started.  I'm Kenta.  Today we'd like to hold a session titled, Safe&Secure, Cyberspace for Youth: Solutions for Asia and Africa.  As our workshop proposal at the website, because of the widespread, we want more people, especially young people are using social media, Facebook, Twitter, all sorts for their communication and expression.

In addition, there is a growing tendency that young people also share the opinions, pictures, and show the videos through social media.

On the other hand, this trend also give rise to a negative effect.  I mean, easy access and having contents includes, contents which aid or encourage criminal acts.  Racist content, hate propaganda, and others.  The access to contents cause serious problems, and in worst case scenario, these problems cause physical impacts in criminal cases sometimes, such as assault, battery, and even murder.

What kind of responses would be effective to address these changes and challenges?  Who should take appropriate measures and help?  To discuss answers to these questions, we held a similar workshop.  This time to discuss the same issues by expanding geographical scope to Asia and Africa, and also by inviting youth panelists in order to listen to honest voices from youth perspective.

We invited five institutional and youth speakers.  Dr. Cisse Kane can't join us today.  First, Dr. Makoto Yokozawa, Nomura Research Institute. Second, Veronica Donoso, Executive Director, International Association for Internet Hotlines INHOPE.  And second, Mr. Raymund Yang Ambassador, NetMission.Asia.  And second, Shirley Wong, Hong Kong Use Forum.

Each participant will make a presentation on a current issue in a country.  I will open the floor for short Q&As in between each presentation to make the session more interactive, so please do not hesitate to ask any questions you may have.

After finishing all presentations, we would like to move on to discussions, and there I will recommend key questions from key comments after each panelist.  And after that, if time, we will invite questions from the audience again.

Finally, I would like to add some brief comments for all the parents here.  The time is limited, I will offer the introductory remarks here, and into the presentations, so please start your presentation.

>> DR. MAKOTO YOKOZAWA:  Thank you, moderator.  I think this room is a little bit noisy from the outside, so I recommend all of the panelists to just talk into the microphone very closely.  All right.

So, let me start with my slides.  Okay.  Sorry.  My name is Makoto Yokozawa and work at Nomura Research Institute and also visiting professor at Kyoto University.  All right.

So this issue, regarding the Safe&Secure Cyberspace for the youth and children is a very, very important issue.  And I have a good experience to talk with this ‑‑ to talk about this in APEC, Asian Pacific Economy Corporation, and Asian Pacific IGF, which was in Taipei, so kindly organized the similar session in the Taipei IGF in this year.  So, based on this experience to have talked with many people in the area, I have a sense with the collaboration framework is very, very essential to achieve our goal, which is protecting the child online.

So, my presentation title is Collaborative Framework in Youth Protection Online.  So, I will begin with some of the good categories of which is the online risks for the youth.  And this slide, I have borrowed this one from the NYC, which is a Japanese Government ministry of Alternative Communication.

They have categorized, what sort of risks, actually exist for the child and for the youth.  So one, as you can see, this part.  Okay.  (Laughing).

Well, I will read loudly, so just forgive me.  So, there are three categories for the online risks.  One is illegal and harmful content risks.  The second one is inappropriate use or risk, and the third one is privacy and security risk.

So, these three risks can be separated and broken down into the many subcategories, but, I think, this is a very good categorization to help us understand, to have a common understanding of what kind of the risks we are facing or the youth are facing.  This is only one.

So, and the other one is the Japanese government is trying to have an indicator of which sort of the risk is currently the most one or second one.  And annually, which risk, of these three categories, are growing or mitigating.

So, this sort of effort is very, very essential for us to have a collaborative work to protect our child and youth. 

Is there any way to adjust?  Okay.  Okay. Okay.  So, I will just read some of the key messages here.  So just comparing the category, one and two and three.  The most influential, the most important risk for youth in this year is illegal and harmful content risks, but there is no unique difference among these three categories, so each category is almost as equally important for the youth.

And this is some comparison of the test questionnaires in 2014, and how did the youth and child actively responding to these risks or not.  So, I could say that 70% of the youth has a positive opinion against protecting themselves.  So, what should be highlighted now is youth or children should be responsible for protecting themselves.  All right.

So, of course, as we can do, as adult people can do something to protecting them.  But most important thing is to encourage them to have an opinion and a positive action to protect themselves.  So, this is what we have learned by indexing the risks of the children in Cyberspace.

Okay.  So, I will spend a few minutes to highlight the other experience from Japan, which is from the Yahoo Japan Corporation, which is Mr. Mochizuki's company.  So, we have ‑‑ to have the Safer Internet Association in Japan, and this is a member of the INHOPE, which is International Association for Internet Hotlines.  This is coming from many, many Japanese companies, including Yahoo and Trendmicro and Amazon and CyberAgent.  So, we have a collaborative teamwork in Japan to quickly respond to any risks of the child or youth.

So, you might not be able to look into this chart, but I just wanted to say that this is a combination of the various stakeholders, so not only these companies in Japan, but also the youth themselves and government and teachers.  Many, many, many stakeholders accessing this SIA, Safer Internet Association and the many informations.  So, all of the information is collected and the feedback to the others.

So, this sort of collaborative platform is very, very essential.  So, and this cannot be only the domestic, so I would like to say that, yes, only the 5% of these threats are come domestically.  Another 95% is coming from overseas, outside of Japan, in Japan's case.  So this is for the total.  And for the child sexual abuse, only 3% is domestic.  So, we have to take care to extend this collaboration into the global scale.  And before that, maybe an Asian Pacific scale.  Yes.

So just to take, for example, the child sexual abuse content, and the rate of removal in websites, this is a result of this effort.  So, they successfully eliminated the sexual content, so this is a good number, but we're not satisfied, so we have to remove this with collaboration, with you, and maybe other stakeholders in the world.  Okay.  Thank you very much.


>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, Dr. Yokozawa, I would open the floor for Q&A, but since we started 15 minutes late, so if you have any question, maybe written questions, so if you have any questions, or if not, we can proceed.

All right.  So, we're going to proceed.  So, the next speaker is Ms. Veronica Donoso.

>> VERONICA DONOSO:  Hi, and good morning.  Thank you for being here with us.  Never stay until the end of IGF, I guess, many people leave.  But anyway, we're trying to make a good session out of it.  I would like to start, and this is a message to IGF organizers, probably.  I'm a bit disappointed by not having made more efforts to bring in people to really listen to youth.

I mean, we have youth representatives, and I don't know where are other people listening to youth.  But okay, I'm going to start and then I can complain more formally with IGF, with you together, maybe.  I think we should make a statement, actually, for next year.  Youth is here.  They made the effort, and we need people to listen to them.

Anyways, my presentation, I'm the Executive Director of INHOPE.  INHOPE is the International Association of Internet Hotlines, and I wanted to start with something that I've been hearing a lot at IGF, and at a lot of conferences lately, which is we're all talking about the next billion users.  And I just Googled next billion users, and this kind of things you can find on the Internet when people talk about the next billion users.  These are the pictures you get by Google targeting the next billion, Facebook, big companies, but also these kinds of gentlemen.  They usually appear on the pictures.  It's really a picture.  I mean, if I ask any of you, I mean, what do you think this guy on the left or the one on the right do, what would you think?  Do you think they're professionals?  Do you think they have gone to the university?  Who thinks these guys have studied beyond high school?  I do.

So, and I think that creates some of the problem.  We have the impression that the next billion users are these kind of people, highly educated, coming from different continents with access to technology with very modern devices.

I think that's a bit ‑‑ it's dangerous to talk about the next billion users, and at the same time, have an international organization fostering universal, affordable access in the least developed countries. 

This is a target.  By 2020, the world wants to have connectivity everywhere.  And that means the next billion users, but when we provide connectivity, when we provide universal access, and when we make it universal, there are also potential risks.  And I think it's very important to be aware of what happens when you bring connectivity, when you bring the Internet, and when you bring access to the regions ‑‑ to regions of the world where they're dealing with other much more important challenges.

So, for instance, look at this pieces of news.  I mean, what is happening in India?  India's busiest train station is becoming a porn hub because people have access to the Internet, so they're not necessarily using it as they tell us people are using the Internet, in a responsible way, that we need to ‑‑ that we are all great about using the Internet.

So, I think that we need to be very careful, because when we target the next billion users, we should ask ourselves, are these users well prepared to take on this challenge?

And, I just got this graph from the World Development Indicators, and you can see, the highest amount of cell phone subscriptions do not match at all literacy rate.  So, you have, in the poorest countries, lots of people with access to the Internet now through cell phone, but these people don't even know how to read, they don't even know how to write.

So, I think that we should also take into consideration, what is the other phase of the next billion users?  And I think that, probably, most of those billion users are going to have these faces and not the faces that I showed you at the beginning.

This is also part of a reality.  And if we're targeting emergency economy, these are the kind of people that are going to be using the Internet.  But these are also the people who are going to be using the Internet, very little children, from very ‑‑ from extremely vulnerable realities.  They're also going to be using it.

So, with universal access comes a huge responsibility.  And, I think it's very important to keep this image in mind to remember that the next billion users are also girls like these, being probably targeted and exploited in different ways.

And what my organization does, and I'm proud to say this, we take this responsibility very seriously.  And how do we do this?  And exactly as the previous speaker said before, we work in a collaborative framework.  We acknowledge that we cannot do this on our own.  We are just a tiny drop in a huge glass of water, but we try to contribute.  And how do we try to contribute?  By providing reporting mechanisms for people, for citizens, so that whenever they're confronted with illegal material, with child sexual abuse material, where people usually talk about child pornography, (word spoken in Spanish), for the Spanish speakers here.  I found something wrong, and something needs to be done about it.  If no reporting mechanisms exist, people are getting this content and they don't know what to do.

And even if they know it's illegal, there are many times people don't dare to tell the police that they found this because they're afraid the police are going to ask me, yeah, why are you sending me child pornography?  Do you have anything to do with it?  I mean, people don't know how this is going to be dealt with, so this is why anonymous reporting mechanisms are so important.  They are essential.

And what we try to do in our organizations is to set up hotlines, (word spoken in Spanish), as I said in Spanish, so people can report this and something can be done.

So, in the image there, you see more or less how this is the generic process.  Normally, a citizen sends a report, the hotline analyzes the report, they assess it according to their national legislation.  And only if they confirm the material found in the image is real child sexual abuse material, and it is illegal in that country, then they send a notification to the Internet ‑‑ send that, and then they trace the content.

This is also huge.  Why can not we work on our own?  Because a citizen?  Mexico can find content, they can report a content to a hotline, but they cannot right now because they don't have one.  I'm really trying to set up one in Mexico, by the way.  But if they had the opportunity, it's probably that when they find the content, they said, yeah, okay, we got it.  It's really ‑‑ I mean, a child was raped and I'm looking at the picture, but I cannot do anything about it because the content is hosted in the U.S.

So, by having an international corporation, as we do, we also provide the opportunity for the hotline working in Mexico, which I hope we will have next year, to send the report to Japan, to South Africa, where they can send the report to Hong Kong.  They can send it to Belgium because we're there, and then those countries will deal with the report if that content is effectively legal, then they will contact the Internet Service Provider so that content can be taken down quickly and avoid that the pictures are out there, for obvious reason, because the child was already victimized.  Can you imagine the stress of knowing that, apart from being victimized, a picture of me was taken, a video of me was made, and I have no idea who is going to see that video?

So, it's very important to take it down.  That is so, so very important.  And also, to work closely with the police because the police who needs to be able to support that child, find the child in the picture, and hopefully rescue it.

So, it's not just about taking the content down from the Internet, which needs to be done in a legal and proper way so that we don't affect any other type ‑‑ we don't interfere with human rights, freedom of expression, and that we're really sure what is taken down is only criminal activity, but also, that we can save and support a child.

So, that's what INHOPE does, and this is how we work, and this is why we believe that it's so important that we have an international organization and mechanisms in place to work internationally.

Currently, we have 53 hotlines, we are present in 46 countries.  Our members include all types of organizations from governmental organizations, to NGOs, and Internet Service Providers.  We have 200 analysts working right now all over the world, and they are all trained by INHOPE, and also, we work together with Interpol and Europol as well in Europe.

And what we do, is we have an association where all of our members work together, but we also have a foundation to support the development of hotlines around the world.  And we believe that it's a very important task of INHOPE to reach the region, to reach the countries where we are not there yet.  We can provide guidance, we can support in the process.  It's a complex process.  You cannot just open a hotline.  It's not a McDonalds or branch of a business.  To set up a hotline, you need support from the government, you need to be able to operate, to view, you need to have a good relationship with the police and protocols to send these reports, but you also need to work with industry.

I mean, it's exactly what you mentioned before.  I mean, you work in Japan very closely, you work with Yahoo and other industry and the police, otherwise it doesn't work.

So, I think, after what I've told you, I hope I don't need to give you any more arguments of why it is important to join our network, and I think that's the only reason.  It's like no country, no organization, no industry.  I mean, nobody on their own can tackle this issue, so we need to work together.  And if you look at our map, the map I'm presenting there, INHOPE, the association is green.

The orange countries are the countries where we have a kind of project, and we hope these countries will become official members of the INHOPE Network, full members of the INHOPE Network very soon.  But all the gray area, we are not there.  In those country, there is no hotline that we know of, or there is ‑‑ they don't belong to our network yet.  And I think it's very relevant, and I thank you very much for having invited me to talk about, specifically, these regions.  It's Asia and Africa, we need more presence.  We need to work together, but also Latin America.  We're in Mexico, we need to ‑‑ I mean, we need to work together.

I'm personally from Chile, I live in Belgium, and work in Amsterdam, and I do understand that it's important to work globally.

So, if you want more information, if you feel that you can talk to someone, one of your governments, an organization, and say look, hotlines are important, and get in touch with us.  Thank you very much.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you, very much, Veronica.  Appreciate it.  I think time is pressing, so maybe we better go ahead.  So, the next speaker is Mr. Arsene.

>> ARSENE TUNGALI:  Hi, everyone.  My name is Arsene Tungali, and I'm happy to be here today.  Thank you so much for inviting me to be as part of this panel, it's really great and always a pleasure to be, you know, to be talking about one of the subjects which really, really matters for me.

I'm a very young person.  Though I'm really connected to these issues of Internet governance, but I know there is so many other people who are my age, probably, but who have issues with, you know, everything ‑‑ everything safety online.

And so, it's always my pleasure whenever I have to talk or share my experiences.  Today, I'll be presenting some realities that we're facing in a country called the Democratic Republic of Congo.  I don't know if how many of you know where is the DRC?  If you know, raise your hand.  I would like just to ‑‑ if you know where DRC is, if someone can show ‑‑

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Speaking off mic).

>> ARSENE TUNGALI:  Perfect.  I understand.  So, if someone gives you a map and asks you to show where is DRC, I hope you would be able to do it because, I mean, it's the second largest country in Africa, and it's located at the heart of Africa.

And so today, I will be talking about how Internet safety education has failed in DRC and the need for more action, so expect me to tell you more of the challenges that we are having in the country as big as, I think, Eastern Europe, and what we need to do in a partnership with people like you.

The DRC, we are currently at 3.6 percentage of penetration, Internet penetration, which as you can see, it's still very low.

And someone will think, maybe because there is Internet still very low in that country, probably there is less issues of safety for young people.  But I will let you, no.  We are having ‑‑ I mean, some of the ways through which young people access the Internet, includes what is what is used in Congo, so many people are able to access Internet through mobile phones through WiFi.  We have very few WiFi hotspots to access Internet for free.  We're also using cybercafés, which you can see in the room, where there is a lot of computers connected to the Internet, and there you have to pay.  And I think, for now, you pay $1 to access the Internet for an hour.  So, one U.S. dollar per hour to access the Internet.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  (Speaking off mic).

>> ARSENE TUNGALI:  Sorry?  Use the mic there.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Just to the have an average, what is the minimum salary, to understand how expensive or cheap?

>> ARSENE TUNGALI:  We are living ‑‑ I'm talking about an area where so many people live with less than $2 a day as income.  So, if you have to access the Internet using a cybercafé, it's like $1 an hour in a cybercafé, and also mobile is using modem to connect to computer.  So, that's why the Internet is still penetration of 3.6%.

There are a lot of challenges, and I'll be mentioning some of them.  One of the challenges is access to electricity.  That's really, really a huge issue in the country because you cannot imagine accessing the Internet, if you cannot, at least, have access to electricity.  You would not be able to charge the mobile phone, you would not be able to charge your computer.  So, that's one of the challenges we are having.  Not only as young people, but as everyone Internet users in the country.

We also have an issue or challenge regarding infrastructure.  Internet infrastructure is still very low, and we are really pushing for the government to have a private‑sector company to really, really invest in Internet infrastructure.  We cannot think about the next billion, if we do not invest in building the Internet infrastructure which will allow people access to the Internet.

As you can see on the pictures, those are some of the people who are maintaining come of the equipment.  So, to touch a little bit on the many sources of basic education in the context of DRC, when a child is born in a family, the first level of education, or where they are expected to be educated in any subjects, is through the family.

So, when in your family, you expect your parent ‑‑ I mean, your brother and sisters to be the first ones to go to give you a basic education on how to live and how to wear your clothes right, on how to eat food, or how to do the basic things.  You first hear them from your family.

And then, in my context, you also get some ‑‑ another type of education from your church, you get another type of education from your school, and then you get another type of education from the society or the community.

And, now I'll be talking about how Internet safety education has failed at all of these levels.  That's why there is a real need of so many people to be involved in the safety of children.

Let's talk about the family.  In so many families, you will notice parents have no idea about what's the Internet.  And so, there is no way they would tell you how to use the Internet because they probably don't use the Internet.  So, you imagine being raised in a family where your parents will always tell you, don't go to the Internet because it's not safe for you.  At least, that's all they can tell you but nothing else.

They just tell you, don't go to the Internet because we know that Internet is not safe for you, but I think, we need parents to be more and more educated so that they won't just tell you don't go to the Internet, but they can tell you, go to the Internet, but behave like this and this and this, don't do this and this and this and this.

But this is not really permanent in so many families, so I can say that on the family level, Internet safety education has failed in so many countries.  I'm mentioning the DRC, but I think it would be the same for so many other African countries.

Talking about schools, every morning you go to school, right.  And when you arrive to school, they give you so many things, but they don't talk about the Internet.  They don't talk about Internet safety because, either the teachers are not trained enough, or they're not well‑educated enough to be able to, you know, to understand anything which is related to safety on the Internet.

You'll go to school, they teach you mathematics, English, and biology, and physics and anything else, but there are very few of them of teachers, even if it is part of your curriculum at school, who are putting like safety education or anything related to the Internet as part of the curriculum at school.

So, I would say, as well, Internet education has failed in so many schools in my country.  We need engagements to educate teachers.  And we are doing ‑‑ my organization is doing a lot of advocacy to try to convince the government to include the basic knowledge on the Internet in the national education program.  And we hope, with the support of so many partners, probably we'll be able to do it.

Talking about churches, I don't know how many of you are going to church.  I don't care.  But in my context, at church they will tell you everything religion but never tell you anything related to Internet safety.  All right.

And as I will tell you, this is the third level of education where you get ‑‑ where young people get access to education.  So, the church will focus on anything religious, but never anything that can help you try to find ways to be safe while using the Internet.

And, we're doing so many things to engage with church leaders, we're doing so many things to engage with youth leaders in their churches, so that they can just create conversations around the Internet things, Internet topics, and Internet safety.  Because if someone fails, you know, to have basic Internet education from their family, then nothing is being done in school, nothing is being done at church.  So, imagine the next people that will be connected to the Internet, what would they look like?

So, we are trying to connect the next billion of people to the Internet, but we don't care about whether they'll be safe or not.  So, I'm really, really ‑‑ this is a reality that I'm facing as a challenge, literally, in my country, and that's why you can see how passionately I'm talking about this.

And now, the fourth level is society or the community.  And there is an African saying that says, if you fail to get an education in your family, the society or the community will take care of it.

And when they're saying that, that doesn't mean that they expect the community or the society to give you the right education you need, but so many of the fake education that young people receiving is coming from the community.  Because there you have like a different type of people.  Some of those who are corrupted morally, some of those who are involved in child pornography, or those who are involved in all of those bad things that young people can expect to get online.

And so, how can you expect to send your kids ‑‑ if you don't educate your kids at home how they can best use the Internet?  They're not well‑educated at school on how they can have access to the Internet.  If they cannot get educated in the churches how to get access to the Internet, don't expect the community to be the ones to tell them how to do it.

And I'm really serious when I'm talking about this.  So, there is a real, real need at every single level of parents of schools of churches and society or community leaders to talk a lot about everything that's related to the Internet, Internet safety tools.

That's why I'm saying there is a real need for companies, for organizations, to get involved in online safety education in the part of the country where I'm living, and I know it's the same thing for so many other African countries.

The government currently has no plan.  But there are a few organizations which are working in child protection, including my organization.

So, what do we do?  I'm the Executive Director of a small NGO called Rudi International.  And aside from all that we are doing, we have a conference where we educate young people and especially women on safety tools through workshops.

So, a few ‑‑ I mean, a couple of times during the month, or as many times as possible as we can, we bring young people into the room and then we discuss about Internet.

And I remember one of the recent ones, we just brought people into the room.  We were talking about Facebook.  The topic of the day was Facebook.  And when I say Facebook, I know so many people, young people use Facebook.  I would say in my country, so many people are more connected to social media, including Facebook and what's happened, also all other online platform, but less using other platforms.  So many people are connected to social media, and so if I bring people in the room and we start talking about Facebook, everyone has something to say because everyone is connected to Facebook.

And in those kind of session, we are talking like, what do you post online?  How do you deal with privacy online?  With whom are you sharing your content?  And what type of content are you sharing online?  How can you protect yourself from not to be hacked?  How do you protect yourself from your account being hacked by someone and post material on your accounts?

And so, discussing some of those things, and we give them ‑‑ we educate them on how they can best protect their privacy, how they can protect their passwords, all of those safety tools that allow them, at least, to have control of what they are sharing online or what they are putting online.  So, this was in 2012.  Oh, yeah.  A few years ago already.

We're celebrating the Communication and Information Society Day, and in this room, so many women are present, and it was really, really a great event.

This was in 2013.  We are doing regularly as annually, girls in ICT day event, which is an annual event that was put in place by the international telecommunication union which whom we are working with collaboration.  So, in this room, we are talking about, oh, yeah, actually, here we're talking about Facebook on this day.  And we had a very nice debate with young people in the room.

Now, I think I'll be finishing my presentation by calling up, you know, INHOPE is in the room and Yahoo Japan is in the room and so many people here are coming from different background or information.  We really, really need to educate the future digital citizens and help them create a safer online environment.  We really need it before it's too late because if we talk about connecting the next billion to the Internet, and if we don't start today, educating them on how they can be safe online; we'll be bringing so many people online, but we'll be only advocating for a lot of harm more than a lot of good for them.

We need to bring education discussions close to the students.  We need to go into schools and have debates.  We need to bridge the digital divide between men and women, which is still another issue, which I'm really, really very passionate about.  And finally, I think we can do more if we are together.

Thank you so much for listening.


>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you for your presentation.  So, time is pressing again, so maybe the next presentation, please.  If it's all right.

>> RAYMUND YANG:  Hello.  Good morning, everyone.  Thank you for sitting here in such an early morning.  I understand it's so hard.  (Laughing).

I am Raymund Yang, and I'm the NetMission Ambassador from Hong Kong and this is Shirley from Hong Kong.  And interestingly, what the previous speakers talked about is related to what we speak.  You can think of this from a comparative perspective.

So, our agenda is, I will first talk about IGF in Hong Kong context in our eyes, and Shirley will share her experience with Hong Kong IGF.

I want to ask one simple question, first.  How many of you will use Forum to discuss with people now?  The Forum?

Okay.  Okay.  How many of you know what is ICQ?  ICQ?  Snapchat.  How many of you use snapchat?  You use snapchat?

Okay.  This is ‑‑ okay.  This is my personal story.  I use ICQ before.  I use MSM Messenger before.  I use, but I don't know whether you guys know this, I don't use Snapchat, and she use Snapchat, this is our organization, how generation change.  This is so fast.  But they don't know Senga or MSM, but I'm using MSM as my memory.

Interestingly, there is a U.S. young guy, a 19‑year‑old, wrote an article, a teenager's view on social media, if you're interested you may look on this.

He did a very short research on, okay, how do the teenagers use social media differently?  Just like our conversation.  I use Facebook, MSM, she uses Snapchat, and the youngest one use a new one that we don't know how to communicate, actually.

That's why I think the first thing is attitude does matter.  That whether you communicate with the younger to know what are they actually using.  For example, in Africa, they use a lot of Facebook, but maybe in Hong Kong, the young, or USA, a lot of Snapchat, or Instagram now, they no longer use Facebook, the secondary students.

I want to talk about short story, even Hong Kong, not only Congo, not only DRC.  Secondary education is not the school education.  This is my school education in the Internet.  They talk how to use the paint, (Laughing).  Also, I taught in one school before.  I talked with the teachers, and they don't know how to use Microsoft Word.  (Laughing).

So not only DRC, but also Hong Kong fails in the school education because the government does not require the teachers to learn how to think of this thing.  They only require the students, don't touch it or don't use it.  They're not asking you not to use it, but they're always telling you this area is dangerous.

For example, we will talk something on the forums on SENGA, say something bad about the school and they use those words to give us a demerit and ask us not to post on the Internet anymore.  So, the attitude is not using them or not touching them.  This is totally failing the students.

Because the schools never talk about it, although my father is in the IT sector, but he doesn't know a lot about Internet governance because Hong Kong doesn't talk about it.  Recently, I encountered a cybercrime experience ‑‑ cybercrime spam.  Somebody approach you saying, oh, may I be a friend, maybe have some cybersex.  I know what they're doing, so I pretend I don't know, then I call the Hong Kong police.  I check that the location is from Philippines, but the Hong Kong police doesn't care.  We don't have the evidence, and then they just stopped.

The I saw from map, Hong Kong, Philippines, Asia is not in there because of network.  Hopefully, yeah.

And all of this thing is interconnected with what the previous speakers are talking about and my personal experience since I was 1.  I am not only 2 years old so therefore, I think action does matter, not only attitude.

And similar to what we have done, we have been doing NetMission, the regional youth IGF and the local initiatives from this year.  So from 2010, we have been doing the regional IGF, the youth IGF to engage the youngsters because maybe the older adults are not that open to new ideas.  So we try to ‑‑ okay.  The youngster, maybe will be a little more open to the Internet governance thing, to engage them with the governance, participate in the IGF things, workshops, seminars.

This is the regional IGF.  Maybe some of you have attended.  Yes.  In Taipei.  We do a lot of things that no more, maybe because they had an experience, Taipei, live engagement.  And then, maybe may I now pass to Shirley to talk about Hong Kong IGF.

>> SHIRLEY WONG:  Good morning, everyone.  This is Shirley.  I'm a high school student and representative of IGF.  Last summer, I participate in Hong Kong IGF, and there are a total of three main highlights in the program.  It determines that Hong Kong students never heard before and was introduced in the seminars.  After that, we've gone to an Internet governance training camp, opportunities to learn and communicate with guests on different industries, government, and NGOs were provided.  Next, we can clearly apply what was learned before and prepare a promotional video to raise awareness of the general public in Hong Kong, especially on how to maintain a secure cyberspace.

Let me show you some of the video.

(music playing).

>> SHIRLEY WONG:  Yeah.  This video is about online shopping and the information was misused, maybe, by other people, and they need to pay a larger amount of money, although they didn't buy anything.

Yeah, and something that is related to issue ‑‑ net issues like private security and security was held, and we were fully engaged in it.  And we share our point of view toward the issue and exchange our opinions with different stakeholders.

And being one of the participants, I did didn't know more about role of youth in Internet Governance Forum.  And importance of when it's in Hong Kong.  Although we are youth, what we could do is more than we are expected.  We could influence our peers, influence our community, and influence our future.

After IGF, we would like to take this responsibility to help educate IGF next year and influencing with our own experience later.

Last but not least, I would like to take this opportunity to introduce two kids to you, all materials of HKY IGF and prepared by ambassadors to be searched by the article, and all the materials can maybe be shared by each other and shared in different country, and we can do more about participating on youth people.  Hopefully more youth are allowed to unleash our potential and our voice can be heard in the future.  Thank you.


>> RAYMUND YANG:  Just 30 seconds to wrap up.  Safe and secure cybersecurity in a new Internet era.  So, what is happening, and what we have discussed for youth, so that's why we have to keep listening to the more younger ones.  Even me, I have for listen to them.  And the new Internet era, it just keeps on changing.

That's why, I think, for a solution that maybe there, might be some more cross‑age dialogue, cross‑legion dialogue, cross‑industry dialogue, and also, with good attitude and actions.  Thank you very much.  If you're interested, you can talk with us more.  Thank you.


>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you for your presentation.  I appreciate it.  So, once again, to make the presentations, and actually, now it's 10:00 a.m., so I would like to combine ‑‑ actually, I was supposed to conduct two discussion, but because of the time, so I'd like to combine two parent discussions, and I'd like to show, kind of, you know ‑‑ so please hang on a second.

Okay.  Thank you.  So, after listening to the activities by the government and the private sector and also the international associations, and also, you know, we listen to the youth perspectives, you know, how are we going to educate our children, or how to protect children educationally necessary?

So now we'd like to talk about the three key questions.  So first, I would like to, you know ‑‑ actually, I was supposed to ask three key questions, one by one.  But because of the time, so I'd like to, you know, each panelist may pick up one question or questions to answer, and then add some comments from the panelists.  So, who would like to start?  Okay.  Please.

>> Well, before, regarding the questions, I have some questions to INHOPE.  All right.  So yes, thank you for the very nice presentation and very good activities.  My question is, I believe INHOPE has very good statistics in which country and how many, you know, access or how many malicious activities?  And maybe in some countries, there are just some, just some difference between the countries and which is most important or most influential to the youth.

So, is any of the statistics already available from INHOPE so that we can utilize that, the numeric data, to have a common assessment of what is the status of the youth in the Internet?

>> VERONICA DONOSO:  Thank you very much for your question.  I probably was going to ask you another question.  As a researcher, we do have data on hosting, basically, and notice and takedown procedures.  That's basically what we do.  So, we know from our members which countries they're most ‑‑ there is more content hosted.  But unfortunately, as you can imagine, hosting is not necessarily a good indicator of where cybercrime or of where crime is occurring.

So, we do have statistics, but mainly about hosting and about how quickly our members are reacting, and how fast they are working to, to take content down together with Internet service provider.  And yes, these are available on our website.

But, I think it's also very important that other organizations work together with us so we can get a better idea also of where crime is happening, and I think these are statistics that law enforcement probably manages better than we do.  But in terms of hosting, we also, I think, because of the nature of the crime, because we're talking about illegal material, it's also very difficult to know who is actually consuming this content.

So, to have an idea of the consumers is also very, very, very difficult.  I mean, you can understand it's not that you can go out there and ask, okay, how old are you?  Where do you live?  How much child pornography do you consume on a daily basis?  So, there are lots of places for research, and I think we have to engage the academic community to find ways to share data and get better results.  But on our website, we do have infographics, at least, on these areas.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Okay.  Thank you.  So, any comments?

>> ARSENE TUNGALI:  I think, yeah.  The mic.  I think who is ‑‑ or who is responsible for the protection of youth online?  I think everyone has a role to play.  Everyone has a role to play, and the governments, I think my government, talking about my government, they need to set up a plan, like saying here is our policy or this is, I mean, our plan in order to help young people be safe while they are connecting to the Internet.

I think even Internet providers also have, kind of, a responsibility.  But these need to be looked at seriously, because if we give them more power looking over this, they could be the one, you know, that could be working on preventing young people to get online because that would be, kind of, censorship or surveillance, so this is a question for stakeholders that needs to be looked at.

We have content ‑‑ we are actually responsible for all the content we put online, and we need to be careful about which content we are posting.  For example, we are this age today, but tomorrow or the next five years, the contents we put today will still be available on the Internet.  And if the content wasn't good, we can expect the people, the younger ones that will have access to that content.  10 or 5 years later, that content won't be suitable for them.  I think parents have a huge responsibility because they are the ones that see us the first time.

So, as I was saying, families need to have discussions over these kind of questions and make sure their kids are well‑informed or aware of anything that is available on the Internet so that, you know, because we trust our parents more than anyone else.  I don't know whether that's the same case everywhere, but I do trust my parents more than anyone else.

So, if my parents engage me in the discussion on online safety tools, I'll be really, really, and I'll take it very seriously.  So parents, schools, and even youth themselves, I mean, if you are educated enough, you know, which contents you don't have to see?

And sometimes we go to the Internet, and we see there are some content which are not, but because of curiosity we tend to click on the content even though we know this is probably only contents suitable for older or just a certain category of people.  But if you are well‑educated enough, we will be able to see, whenever we see a link that is only for adults.  We don't need to click on that content because that content is not appropriate for us.  I think young people need to know that and be aware of that.  Thank you.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  I have a question.  Thank you for your comments.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Jutta, representing the German Center for Child Protection on the Internet, and I want to thank all the panelists for their good presentation, especially for demonstrating how all the educational institutions are failing ‑‑ the institutions and families are failing the children in educating them.

At the center, I'm working for ‑‑ we have set up like a model case called, Intelligent Risk Management, and this is a model that includes all the stakeholders that you've named in your first question who are responsible for the protection of youth online, and the most important thing is, that not all stakeholders have to play the same role and all ages.

So, we look at the smaller children, parents, obviously, and family has the most important role to play, but also, they can be supported by technology that keeps children away from harmful content, but that would not work for the older children, and I completely agree that then it could not be the case that older children and teenagers are prevented from having access to online that might be useful for them.

So, when it's called Intelligent Risk Management, it's like a process of the younger children being more guided, then they get the education to be more empowered to protect themselves so that they are able to make the best out of the Internet.  And I think that would be good to have this, kind of, like a structure that could also help governments to set up a plan like it was suggested by Arsene.  Thank you so much.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you very much for your wonderful comments.  I appreciate it.  So maybe, I think, you know, any comments of the comments?  No?  Okay.

>> VERONICA DONOSO:  Jutta, thank you for your positive remarks.  I'm, actually, thrilled to be with people from different generations, and it's amazing to hear that you consider yourself from different generations when you are probably only five or six years' difference between each other, and I think that's exactly why it is important to have these panels because we, as adults, we tend to see the world divided into two.

I mean, adults and children.  I mean, the difference is between the children younger than 18, the youth are huge.  So, I think, I would like to advocate for more presence of the people who are actually where we're trying to protect people, we're not inviting them to talk about what matters to them.

I was very impressed by looking at your video, Shirley, and I have to say that when I saw it, I really didn't get the message very well.  But when you said it's about online shopping, because when I think about online child protection, it would never come to my mind that online shopping is an issue because the children, you know, or the young people, you know, are not really active on the online world, but in Hong Kong it's an issue.

So, I think this calls for ‑‑ it's not only a global approach, but actually, we need to recognize cultural differences, and we need to stop thinking that Europe or the United States or the developed world, and the developed world only in the center of the world, because the world shouldn't have a center.  The world has a center depending on where you look at it from.

So, the center is not Europe, and Europe is doing very well, I think, compared to the rest of the world when you think from a European perspective.

I don't think that developing countries are doing great at sharing their best practices.  I don't think that the global initiatives are seriously taking into consideration what it means to be a child in countries that are not present of the IGF just because they don't have the resources to be here, and we are not hearing their voices.  And that was the case, that we also had one of our panelists told us that he couldn't make it because he couldn't secure funding to come.  I mean, these things shouldn't happen.

And, I think, I would advocate.  We talked a lot about collaboration, we talked a lot about doing things together and talking about a global approach.  I think we should also start talking about solidarity.

So, the countries that have progressed in this area, should share best practices, should take care of the countries which are not as advanced and which do not have the same resources or the same quality of life, and they should take care about other countries.

We should create platforms so that people can really go there and teach things that could matter.  We should also open the dialogue so that people talk about what really matters to them.  We need to know that some child in some part of the world, in Hong Kong, we need to be educated about online shopping and not necessarily about issues, which we as adults, and we, as European‑centric world or US‑centric world that youth have the same everywhere.  So, I also call that for accepting the difference, but also be more helping in the countries that need our help more.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you very much for your comments.  And I think, you know, there must be a comment, so please.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Speaking off mic).

>> Yeah.  I would like to take this opportunity to point out some of our youth voices as by other, because some of them, we think youth are not as experienced as some, so we do not have many chances to express our feelings.  But it's a great chance for us to express our opinions in IGF.  I do hope that more region will provide more chances for youth to participating in the forum, and they can share the opinions.

As you already discussed before, there are really a gap between the youngsters and the older generation.  As we all know, the apps that we are using are totally different.  And maybe the different issues in different countries, it varies.

So, I do think that more youth, the users now days, yeah, the youth can voice out their feelings and what happens in their daily life.  It would be more important in a discussion.

I do think that, just to mention, we would like to share our own experiences and resources with all of us, so maybe some of the countries will now have the IGF and discuss about having the forum for the kids to talk about IGF.  And there are kids provided to all of you, older resources for all of you guys to share it and take it as a reference, and maybe hold a local IGF in your country.  Thank you.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I want to take this final chance for thank all of you for talking with us.  I'm older generation of you.  Thank you.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Okay.  Thank you very much for your comment.  I appreciate it.  So actually, you know, after, you know, listening to your comments, I think education is most necessary, and each stakeholder and each generation must play roles in protecting youth and educated the younger generations.

But, you know, it must be supported by your, you know, methods or some other thing.  So, I have a raised hand, so please, your comment?

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes, hello.  I'm from Hong Kong YMCA, and I have a question for you guys.  In Europe, maybe education can be a very good choice, an ideal choice.  But, I think, in some of the Asia countries or in Africa, there is no such resources and money to do education.

I think some kind of restriction isn't needed to protect children because these countries can do much education to protect children.  Thank you.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  So, I think, does anyone have questions?  We have still 10 minutes to go.

>> Well, there is an ironic dilemma for people who want to educate the younger generation.  For example, in the Asian or the African, or even in Japan, we just introduce young children and youth to Internet.

The question is that the youth age of the Internet ‑‑ or the youth with the security education will be the first, so it means at the first moment of the child touch on the computer or smartphone, there is two choices.  One, is let them play as they want, so no interference.  This is not good, or this is good.  We don't say anything.  So just learn.  Let them learn.  What is the Internet?  What is a network?  This is choice one.

The choice two is just looking at the children, and just, this is not good every time they just look into the malicious website or something like that.

So, this is a paradox for us, and answering to your question, to have the simultaneous education to the youth age of the Internet and the security education at the same time, costs twice as much as in the cost.

So, this approach is very, very important for us, and if you think about the overall cost and the effort, it might be the choice one that no security education at the first moment.

So, while nobody has the answer to this, but at least, in every country, in Africa and Asia, if the children want to touch on the Internet, they have the opportunity to do this.

So, the learning or even the usage of the Facebook or any kind of the social network, for the security education, could be saving the time and the resources for us.  Okay.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you so much for your comments.  Any further comments or questions?  Okay.  Please.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm also from Hong Kong, and I studied proper administration, so I kind of touch a bit on how the government spend money.  I think that we need money, we need funding to improve the Internet governance education.  But, okay.  Back to local context.  Hong Kong government has money, but it doesn't spend on Internet governance education.

I think, I'm not sure of the other region, but there is the problem of Hong Kong.  So, if you ask me for the solution, I think we, apart from youth engagement, we may have to do some more lobbying that when you have the contact with some government officials, you have to talk with them, hey, this is important that you have to look at it.  And if you're not looking at it, some more problems might arise.  And, at that moment, you might not have time to tackle with it.  That's my personal comment.  Thanks.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you very much for your comment.

>> VERONICA DONOSO:  And I thank you for your question because it's a very critical question.  I think, many times we get together, we all come to the same conclusion.  We need more education, we need to do more, parents need to get educated.  We never talk about how are we going to do it.  We all know that that needs to happen, but we don't know where we're going to get the money to do it.  Especially the regions which are more vulnerable, are the ones that need more infrastructure, more resources, more money, which exactly, they do not have.

So, I think what was said before, it's very important here.  We also need engagement from the industry.  They need to have a commitment.  When they develop them, and put them available for youth and for children, the base should be the technologies, the services should also be built with safety in their mind.

You cannot just have user friendliness as the key thing driving the development of new technologies.  Technologies are not just to be fun and to be user friendly, and to be ‑‑ like, ways of collecting data and targeting people in ways that we don't know.  They should also be safe and secure, and they should take the responsibility to track ‑‑ not to track.  I mean, I don't mean, here, like do not violate the privacy of what people are doing, but take the responsibility, and we need to be creative here.

I don't know how we're going to be protecting people, understanding what's happening in the platforms, if we also don't want to surveillance to interfere with it.  I think we're confronted with very big challenges because sometimes we have security versus privacy and we need to be very careful in which way we move on.  But the technology moves too fast, legislation moves too slow, and innovation just goes much more ahead than any framework that can protect children, youth, or normal citizens coming across continents.  So, I think, we should think more about what we do, but build in, also, security into the services.  I mean, without interference with other human rights, of course. 

I don't know what is the answer, but I'm very glad you raised the question.  I think solidarity, I think that should also keep in our minds, that countries that can do more should help the countries that are doing less, and we should take that responsibility also as governments.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Okay.  Thank you very much for your comments.  So, I really want to, you know, contribute to this discussion, but, you know, we have 5 minutes left.

So, I'd like to invite the final few words from all panelists, so is it alright?  Question?  Okay.  Sorry.

>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Just one word, hearing all of the discussion here, I just that that this key word is very, very essential.  It's security by design.  All right.  So, it covers all, or most of, the other discussion here.  We need to improve.  Thank you very much.

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you very much.

>> ARSENE TUNGALI:  I'm really thankful for the opportunity that was given to me.  I mean, it's always a pleasure when sharing and talking about those issues that are really of interest to me, and sharing from my own experience in my own perspective, so it's really good.  Thank you so much for, you know, for this presentation.  And as Veronica said, I think we need next year, for we will make it to IGF, encourage or do more advocacy or a lot of outreach so that this event is put on right at the very beginning of the IGF to make sure we have so many people participating, because I believe so many people need to hear these stories.

Not everyone is interested in anything child online safety; though, it's really, really crucial and really, really important.  So, thank you so much.  And should you need to contact me, I will be around.


>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you very much.  Veronica, please.

>> VERONICA DONOSO:  I talked enough.  I think that we should make the commitment to come back.  And really, I support Arsene.  We need to be heard and we need to ask people to put young people, and to put the regions of the world which are never heard, to put them at the front of IGF.  It's about Internet governance.  We need to find ways to bring these people ‑‑ and, I mean, see you next year.  (Laughing).

>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Thank you very much.



>> SHIRLEY WONG:  Just thank you for providing that great platform for us to share our own experience, and it's quite amazing for us to exchanging different opinions here with different stakeholders.  Yeah.  Thank you.


>> RAYMUND YANG:  I do hope that maybe Hong Kong has more collaboration with other best practice cities, and I hope the officials with power can listen to other people.


>> KENTA MOCHINZUKI:  Okay.  Thank you very much for all of your comments and also the questions as well.

So, after this session, yeah, you know, you got some information.  Now, it's how to protect youth online.  And also, the most important thing is to ‑‑ that each stakeholder must play the roles in protecting children, but at the same time, Internet is open and so people should share the knowledge and experiences together, you know, at here, the Internet Governance Forum, and try to, you know, adjust.  You know, try to find solutions on how to protect online in each or respective countries.

So, I would really like to continue the discussion next year, and also, I, you know, we have very committed personally in the national and regional IGF and hold a workshop to, you know, enhance a way to protect youth online.  So today, thank you very much for attending this session, and we are looking forward to working together.  Thank you very much.


(session completed at 10:37 a.m. CST)