The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> -- is our online moderator. Online is also rapporteur. Our Internet.nl will tell you how secure your Internet is. It is an internal community
>> There is no sound at the moment.
>> I hear you. I hear myself as well. Continue three ICT sustainability is becoming more relevant and discussed. How the Dutch government uses procurement and negotiated with big tech to deploy for – also, you will hear other organizations that work with the Internet.nl tool in the future. I think the mic was, working.
Also you will hear from those who work with the Internet.nl tool and learn from their experiences. There will be time for questions but first a short survey. Who is family with Internet.nl. Who has used it? Yes, but you have. Thank you very much. Without further adieu, let me introduce the first speaker. The standardization forum will take you through the Internet.nl, so Wout, the floor is yours.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: We will talk about measure of security and how the use the Internet.nl and why we use the standards, to key the Internet open, free and secure. However those do not implement themselves. You have to implement them actively. To support this adoption we developed the Internet.nl tool, which can be used to measure your adoption of these important standards. For demonstration purposes we measured the IGF donors and partners for this event using our dashboard. It is a tool you can automatically measure multiple domain names on standards. These are snippets for next week.
The adoption for IGF users is not optimal yet. Some scores are over 50%, pretty good, considering international standard adoption. This dashboard can be used for scheduling and trend monitoring over time and regularly updated using the latest standards and measurements. On the next slide you can see a more detailed scanned result when you use our Internet.nl website for individual domain names. The IGF website did not perform too well. The nice thing is we not only present a score but also explain why the score is given and give guidance to how to improve your score. For instance, in this case, to enable some settings to protect your https connection better.
On the next slide you see who is behind Internet.nl, private, public cooperation in Netherlands and outside and struggling for more international use of Internet.nl. You can see some of the international users used at the moment are Brazil, Portugal, Denmark and, well, hopefully after this session you get inspired to use Internet.nl in your country as well. To use it is quite easy because on the next slide I explain Internet.nl is Open Source program available on GitHub if you want to use it yourself.
However if you are not in the capacity to use, you can use our API or dashboard capability. Ask us a question at Internet.nl and we will give you access O the tooling. We are also launching a new initiative. Please send us an email for that and thank you for your attention.
>> Also if you email that at Internet.nl, it is me. I'm appointed as its coordinator. If you want to test it yourself just now you can. Because you can type in Internet.nl and type in the URL and can see the security and see the message you can actually take. Thank you, Wout, for the participation. We have the panel now. The first is Annemieke Toersen of Platform Internet Standardization form and on the board
>> ANNEMIEKE TOERSEN: Thank you, Wout, for the advantages of Internet.nl. Thank you for the session. More came into the room. My name is Annemieke Toersen from Netherlands think tank for the government and operations, that are key critical. Think after interoperability for trustworthy exchange or security, which, of course, influences the trust positively.
Accessibility, as government is obliged to inform the public and neutrality and (?) Is important in this case. The forum actively promotes and advises Dutch government about usage of standards. You have to consider it is about 25 people from various backgrounds. So you think about government, business and science. When it comes to Internet standards, the Dutch government has a three fold strategy shown. The next sheet. And I will briefly go through it. It is a bit it is another sheet. It is backwards. Yes, that is the one, thank you very much.
First, we mandate specific open standards. We can do so by including standards on the compliance, or explain at least. This is done after careful research, in which we consult technical experts. The standards on this list should be required when governments are investing new IT or government systems. As we survey within the Dutch government, we have seen quite some progress using open standards. However, it also became clear some organizations have not yet moved yet.
In addition to comply or explain they can make agreement with compliance dates and we have done with several modern standards like https and ARPKI. We mandate specifics and go for moderate standards reviewing standards and procurement standards. For modern we happily use Internet.nl to frequently measure 2 and a half thousands government domains, that is pretty much.
Finally, we investing in community building. We try to bridge gap between technical experts and government officials, therefore we are happy with Internet standard platforms and are actively participating. This cooperation enables us to be more effective, helpful to governments with technical questions and also with questions regarding how to request modern Internet standards for vendors.
If you watch for community building and international collaboration for digital standards we engage several efforts. For example, the platform and secure mail coalition and initiatives include (?), cooperation with European countries, Wout mentioned Denmark, Czech and Portugal. But Internet.nl, as well, you can reuse and partners like Australia and you further on Flavio from Brazil and Denmark. We reach to Cisco, Microsoft, OpenExchange, Google and more. This adopts similar practices which results in successes such as Microsoft's announcements such as full support of email security standards exchange online last October. We are pretty proud.
This achievement is part due to ongoing correspondence and discussions between Dutch government and Microsoft since 2019 and by lobbying other countries we create critical mass that enables more effective negotiations with suppliers. Our experience with Microsoft demonstrates concrete correspondence, which is important. This strategy can be applied to other areas such as sustainability. Later we hear about them. Suppliers are more inclined to modify services when multiple governments or countries support an issue.
The key is to build a critical mass. The next sheet will show you the most important this. Is over and this is important for course correspondence.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you, everyone thinks this is concrete until they change ways to make fairly secure, which will happen. Now we will move outside the Netherlands and listen to what others have been doing with Internet.nl but their own name. The first is Gilberto Zorello, the project and his coordinator is Kenji Yani, the assistant developer. If you have questions, ask Flavio after the session. Gilberto, the floor is yours.
>> GILBERTO ZORELLO: Thank you, it is a pleasure. The implementation in Brazil we call top dot dot PR. In Brazil this tool was applied, use middle up/down approach, unlike the Netherlands. However, we hoped that the key players in Brazil were also adopt best practices in end users.
We promoted the tool in meetings, that we have in Brazil. Even soft NITVR and Internet association of service providers. We have some numbers of the organization here in Brazil. For website desks the domain now is about 4,000 websites. The Hall of Fame is about 600. Adoption of IPv seeks about 20% only, then assigned 20% and https about 20%.
The government of Brazil has tested about 20 websites, our government. They are working internally with the governance of the world to improve implementation of best practice here in Brazil.
We need desk about 21,000 unit domains, the Hall of Fame is about 80, ITCP about 30%, (?) 11%, the (?) 16% and (?) 1 %. Connection desk is about 100,000 desks, our mark desks, in this case. UTIS desk about 7,000. It is an important number because we have here in Brazil 9,000 A Ss. Then we can check that 7,000 was to know, okay. The desk reconciled validating the set is about 210,000, 71%. User for IPv 6 is 7%. Adoption is increasing.
In Brazil using middle, up, down approach. The other important thing is we just implemented the person of 1.7 and in next year we will implement 1.8 version of Internet.nl.
I don't know if Flavio can provide information.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you, we are finished but
>> GILBERTO ZORELLO: Yes.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Just wanted to check. Thank you. It is encouraging to see numbers are going up because of work you are doing. I want to congratulate on that. The next who is going to speak is going to come in from Singapore, Steven Tan responsible for cyber security there. You have been working with the Internet.nl some years. Can you tell us the experience you have in Singapore.
>> STEVEN TAN: Right, I'm Steven. Similar to Internet.nl we have our own hygiene portal meant increase the country landscape. The hp encouraging service providers to adopt key security through a transparent system. On top of the tool we have come up with a reading system that to actually understand better sorry, because I'm being muted here.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: We can hear you but you dropped away a few seconds but we can hear.
>> STEVEN TAN: Sure, transparency system, our Internet hygiene routine. The push has helped shift by proactive security enhancements. Since launch in 2022 IHP has conducted more than 120,000 scans with users from across 20 countries. Importantly, notably more than 45% of domains have shown improvements from their first initial scan to most recent evaluation. That has helped points that IHP has helped meaning progressed in security rating itself.
What we have done similar to Internet.nl we have an API that will enable integration for businesses looking to automate security assess Ps. Several industry players and players have signed up showing key interest and cyber security plus (?). So IHP has helped shift the security landscape and seen the providers like Orion and Exabytes.
They have completed their websites and email services to meet, by default, security strong Internet security best practices, which also means any clients or businesses actuallies to these providers and by default have higher rating of best practices Internet security. What has been encouraging is smaller firms in Singapore has come on board. Now featured in our Internet hygiene routine under section of ICT category so more are recognizing importance of following recognized Internet security best practices. By far responses has been great. Similar to what Internet.nl has shed even tech giants like Microsoft and Amazon and (?) Collaborates recognizing the two potential potential to achieve collective improvements, right.
This is something but we have been sharing notes between engagement with Microsoft so we know we could actually have to nudge the different tech giants into doing action, right, to really make the Internet a safer place. So today (?) Giants have significant industry shift toward corporate responsibility in maintaining Internet security environment.
By adopting the IHP Best practices there cross platforms while contributes to safer digital ecosystem. Such collaboration proves we could actually set security norms to voluntary engagement where transparency and fact recognition are in place. Moving forward the Internet hygiene similar seeing on Internet.nl be all right as strong point as establishing broader security norms. We understand formal regulations may come later, the primary focus is to encourage voluntary adoption through industry recognition, public visibility and healthy competition. I think kudos to the various teams that have create tools for your countries and of course region and in fact, internationally, thanks.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you, Steven. I think what the three presentations show is, on the one hand, with this tool organizations can test themselves. Also what you hear of Annemieke and Steven say, they test organizations and let them know what their current status is. We heard from both that organizations are tested and not tested so well, have inclination to move upwards. To better themselves and enter this Hall of Fame and big corporations are, more or less, exposed as being less secure and also means pressure on them starts existing to better themselves. I think that is one of the major factors that this tool can be so successful.
We have heard from three organizations that have deployed. We will now hear from an organization that is looking into deployment, so I'm inviting the next speaker, Daishi Kondo, a professor at Osaka Metropolitan University and Internet security, including email security. So Daishi, can you tell us what you do in Japan to make Internet.nl happen and what the challenges are you are running into, thank you.
>> DAISHI KONDO: Okay, thank you very much. I'm Daishi Kondo from Osaka Metropolitan University. I have to say that the rights doesn't provide to Internet.nl. So I want to ask I want to answer two questions. The ask question is what makes Internet (?) By me this is by extension because we don't have similar tool. The important point is executive visualization. So Internet.nl platform like scoring system. Most people don't know the detail of the security measures such as SPL in Demark. It is not people know detail. The security level of the systems through the scoring system. So this principle alone, the people, and to easily prepare (?). For example we want to achieve more at least 80% of particular likelies.
So also we have Internet.nl Internet.nl have a Hall of Fames. They compliant bots. This can create peer pressure among competitors within the industry, so this should also like very interesting interesting family.
Second question what do you expect to achieve in Japan by using Internet.nl. So my answer is though Internet.nl, using intended Internet.nl can encourage people to take better care of their systems. Currently Japanese in Japan we don't have a like standard. One potential use case is create a test kitchen, using a budget to check measure implemented by the system provider.
So I called some points so we can implement Internet.nl in Japan. Thank you very much.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: I wish you good luck with implementation of Internet.nl in Japan. I understand there is an online question? No? Then we go to the room to see if there are any questions on your side. So who would like to ask a question. Yes, please, sir. Do you have a microphone for the question in the room? You have a microphone? Please introduce yourself and affiliation first, please sir.
>> I'm Peter Jackson , Jr. From Liberia from the regulatory body. My question is, our countries are far behind in terms of Internet development. Now we are talking about Internet.nl. For my country would be LRO. We are developing for regulating country like mine. What can we do? What is required of the regulators to ensure that we too have Internet.lro, which is Liberia. With what can we do.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: I will give the question to Wouter. He will answer. A very good question indeed.
>> WOUTER KOBES: Thank you for the question. Like I mentioned it is possible to re use the code. It is an Open Source project. Well, as a regulator, I think it might be an interesting tool also to reuse because you can measure standards adoption. Yeah, well, the question, how to launch it, it is basically, if you look from a technical perspective it is following installation instructions. Or make your own tool through the dashboard or API features.
Of course, if you want to use this for regulatory purposes, you will have to do some work in making it land in your country. Making operators, hosting providers, I S Ps to measure and use their own standard adoption. I would say the starting point for adoption is making it possible to measure your adoption. Therefore, this source code could contribute to that. I hope that answers your question.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: It is available for free. It is not like a business model; it is there for you to use if you want to start using it. Microphone?
>> My fear we not be (?) Creating problem by interfering into setup of net Internet.nl. Create a problem. Would that not be a problem if we start using Internet.nl in Liberia? How would we handle this?
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: I would say if you decide to start using it, you deploy it in your own country. At that point, like Brazil for example, they call it Top and in Singapore something else. You give it your own name. No longer Internet.nl, it is something you choose. From that moment it is yours. It is available for free. Instructions just exchange cards with Wouter. It will be okay. Then you will join the community we will be setting up soon. The first invitation will go out in January or early February.
>> Thank you.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: So please join, if you would like to. Is there another question in the room? Time for one more. Yes.
>> Shawna Hoffman, thank you with Guardrail Technologies. One question, I looked up my website and realized we have work to do ourselves. I come from the United States. What advancements have you been making with the U.S., or is this something we need to start in our country?
>> WOUTER KOBES: I'm not aware if we have any initiative in the U.S. But what Wout is saying, the reason we are having this session right now is making this tool more known globally. Perhaps we can talk after this session how we can reach the U.S. I think in the end it is in best interest of the Internet and everyone at the IGF to have this tool widely used and known. Not necessarily under the name Internet.nl but in your country that is known and used by as many providers as possible.
So let's talk after the session about this, thank you.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: You have a question? Please introduce yourself and affiliation.
>> Sorry, my name is can you hear me? Azil Atilivm of Nigeria. My program,e is building capacity with limited resources. Usually we talk but is there proactive initiative where there is measuring of their, you know, infrastructure and trying to develop the infrastructure? So it is standardized as much as possible in all countries?
>> WOUTER KOBES: Not sure if I got your question.
>> For example, that gentleman from Liberia is asking, that is reactive to what is happening. Being proactive but that is maybe by your end or international organization in the field. So to make sure no country is left behind. That is my question.
>> WOUTER KOBES: That is a very good point. The power of the tool is it is not bound to a country to test domain names so you can actually test like I present, you can test the IGF website, you can test websites from all over the world already. So challenge is not technology but making adopted in countries where the reach might be more difficult. While I consider this session one of our proactive measures to make this more known but if you have any ideas, perhaps we can discuss it after the session to make sure no one is left behind.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you, Wouter. If you'd like to be proactive, you can use Internet.nl in your country and make it work. To make it measure and better known is deploy the system yourself. But to show your countrymen, use Internet.nl and for example test a bank or government in your own country. You will get the results also. So that is perhaps more proactive way to start. Thank you for your question.
>> STEVEN TAN: SL, sorry? Steven, I can answer to that question. I think want Netherlands to realize forms similar to Singapore and what we try to appreciate is when we identify various aspects of various modern standards, what we are trying to do is realize set of standards all countries, hopefully at an international level, to deploy. We do believe no country should be left behind when comes to secure Internet adoption. By creating success available on Internet now, NICYR, portal on CSA government's website, what we trying to do is every country should embrace this. This is where we have (?) Pin and efforts and tracked administers and teams. And new technologies are M doing along the way. We have cleared way for everybody to use it.
For countries starting to embrace Internet and start to take on these various standards, the by de facto great standards, many have already been tested and tried and have also learned our lessons, right. More or less correct answers are not available. And that for you who are trying to learn really trying to get your Internet up now, these standards are perhaps I wouldn't say is the best but it will be to second or when right that you want to achieve these standards and adopt it across your country and have your ICT providers develop and adopt best practices. They would, by default, be great and useful. Especially many countries have actually already tried and tested already. So this is what we are trying to do here.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you, apologize for not recognizing the voice. We can't see anyone. That is very important and explanatory. I see a gentleman saying thank you and nodding. As we have only an hour we will move into the second section of our open forum, and that is on sustainability.
Many in the room will have knowledge and, most likely, opinions on sustainability and role stakeholders have to reach sustainable future for all living creatures. But how to go about this?
The Dutch government is using on a novel approach with procurement approaches. What is the current plan and state and look forward to. These will be answered by the Dutch coalition for sustainable digitalization.
And next Rachel Kuijlenburg, part of Ministry of Interior and Rachel is committed to getting this a step further. First Hannah and Rachel about the policy side. So Hannah, please first.
>> HANNAH BOUTE: Thank you, Wout and all online for attending this session. I would like to take you along and make bridge from security to sustainability. In Netherlands we do that with the Dutch coalition for sustainable digitalisation. So if I could have the next slide, please.
To start with, the Internet is obviously part of a digital system. That digital systems shouldn't only be secure but also sustainable. If we zoom out, in Europe we call this the digital transition. The other side is sustainability transition. We see a growth of connections, growth in quality and also technology becoming more efficient but nevertheless we as human beings have the tendency to use efficiency that comes free.
If we can go to the next slide, please. So that means we have to see digitalisation in terms of sustainability as well. We can look at sustainability of the digital system in three scopes. The first scope has to do with your own company. Think of your company facilities, but also the vehicles of your company. We call this scope one. Also scope two, where purchasing comes into perspective, so emissions by purchasing energy, for example. And scope three has to do with the indirect responsibility you have when you purchase something throughout the supply chain and also the distribution to your end consumer.
And with regards to IT, you can think about e-waste and scarcity of minerals and metals. Next slide, please?
So in the Netherlands we try to give this twin transition we try to drive forward in a public/private cooperation since stakeholder groups all have to play a role in this transition. And here you see a number of the logos of the parties we cooperate with. The Coalition For Sustainable Digitalization is possible with help of all these parties. Especially together with the ministry of economic affairs. Together with the coalition and ministry of economic affairs in Netherlands, we created action plan for sustainable digitalisation, which has analyzed and identified several action points to be able to use this transition forward. If we can go to the next slide, please.
We do that in four program lines. Visualized in this house of sustainable digitalisation. Very important slide is the first for program line is first program line technological innovation. This has to do with sustaining the digital system. Within the coalition we focus on sustaining artificial intelligence. Big adoption of sustainable intelligence but also we are looking at how to make Internet more sustainable. Then digitalisation of IT and we are looking between relationship between the energy and digital system.
But also making the IT of organizations more sustainable is a very important program. Like in the European union we currently have a directive called Corporate Sustainable Reporting Directive which makes companies report about the three scopes. We have solutions working groups to make their journey toward IT more sustainable.
A very important working group in this program line is the IT procurement working group, of which Hahshe is our Chair. It is important to give notice so she can explain in regards to procurement.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you, Rachel, the floor is yours.
>> RACHEL KUIJLENBURG: Thank you for the opportunity to talk about sustainable procurement of IT. My name is Rachel, I work for Logius, that the government minster of interior and maintain government wide ICT solutions to simplify communications between the government and our society. At Logius we procure IT. Why I'm the chair of the IT procurement within the coalition. Proof of the pudding is in the eating, because we can talk a lot but we should do this.
So next slide. We well, here you see a policy frame. In my former job, when I was in sustainable of tangible world of plastics and food waste, we developed this framework to commit our strategy within policies of the organization. So we focus on refuse, the cheaper strategy in tactics was use and re use, so it was really nice to hear our former speakers really tried to re use the standard of the Internet dotcom, but we tried to make better sustainable footprint on IT. That includes software, storage, cloudware and hardware because 80% of software is in production of hardware. To ensure hardware should be both as less as possible, this framework could help.
Then the question is how to procure this. In the next slide we show you our focus points. Firstly, it is really we focus on to minimalize our energy needs. So energy efficiency is really impossible needed procurement of IT. Also, emission free so focuses on hardware and also data centers to become to neutral in 3050, whatever your policy is. In the end, we really try to procure circular and climate proof.
But the question is, how are you going to do this? That is on the next slides. We are developing a framework. Here you can see. It is not it starts so please, if you well, you want to help us, send me an email. How to, well, really focus on several focus points in relation to hardware, software and clouds.
So in hardware what you can see, if we procure, you can really aim for energy requirements. Also, there are some ISO standards or energy units you can ask for. What is very helping legislation at the moment is see Sarde in Europe. Every company we have to procure we have to report their sustainability credentials so that also will help you with Co2 neutral.
, for cloud, we in Logius we have our own centers but also procure a lot of centers. For that we also have standards to make sure our suppliers are trying to aim for, well, becoming as sustainable as possible.
Within the coalition at this moment, we try to develop, well, a better framework, so coming year we will focus on hardware, software and cloud. But also, a very important part of the procurement is the contract management, so the next step what we will take the coming year is to do more research on not only how to procure but also how to contain within the contract management that all the IT procurement is going to be secure.
So if you the last slides. If you want to help us, or if you need any information, we are more than willing to share. Just send me an email. My email address is here within the sheet. And, well, we make nice steps in procuring sustainable IT and hopefully with your help we can make better steps, so thank you for the attention.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you, Rachel. As everything is in Dutch, perhaps you can translate what people are reading here for them.
>> RACHEL KUIJLENBURG: Oh yeah. Well, it is about our aims at Locius. As I said, we are a digital government service. It is two hub. How do I translate this in English? It is early in Holland.
>> HANNAH BOUTE: Sustainability.
>> RACHEL KUIJLENBURG: Data, exchange, the infrastructure and about standards within IT. So these are our aims within the company. I should have used an English one. So my apologies for the Dutch.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Sorry for putting you on the spot, Rachel. There is one question online. One short comment, I think. What is promised as a third topic, is how things interact between the two topics. That is procurement. If you measure your Internet standards that is the moment you know you can procure on to make yourself more secure. The same goes for the sustainability. When you know what it is about, you can start procuring measures that are actually supporting sustainability. There is a question online.
In the chat someone called BART. What does international Internet community focus on, more the tool and its usage. Wouter, or I can do that myself.
I think what the community is trying to do is bring together organizations currently working with the Internet.nl or tool like it and organizations interested to do so in the future. What we would do is come together twice a year and online, not physically but online and discuss where we are at this time and challenges we run into, to learn from each other but also for example to coordinate on the next step so we all move together through next evaluation of evolution of project, we could do so together, develop together and in that way learn together.
So that is what we are doing to do the first year. After the first year, evaluate or see if we have to change it. Or perhaps there is no interest, that is the other option, of course. We will be working on that in the next year and have two sessions, probably one in the spring and probably one in the fall on the Northern hemisphere. From there, see how we develop.
I saw there was a question in the room. If no, I will move to Coen Wesselman, our Rapporteur. Can you tell us the less sons and what we learned? Coen, the floor is yours.
>> COEN WESSELMAN: Yes, I can. Thank you all for being here. We started the session off with a clear explanation by Wouter of what Internet.nl is and what it is doing, what it is standing for in open, free accessible Internet for everyone. We moved into the panel discussion where Annemieke from the Dutch Standards Form made appeal to critical appeal to countries to lasting changes to Internet standards and security. We have seen very promising presentations from the Brazilian organization for Internet standards and the cyber security agency from Singapore, thanks for that a lot.
We hope to see that Japan is moving, Daishi is moving forward to start an Internet.nl version for Japan and monitor their Internet activities.
We have seen clear questions from the present person from Liberia, which have been answered and Hannah and Rachel gave clear insight into what Netherlands is doing in combining digitalisation and sustainability in private/public cooperation and the role in improving the situation for the Netherlands. I hope for everyone this concludes the session.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you, Coen. This is what we will put online for this session. I think we have learned a lot in this session. I'm not going to repeat what Coen said. That is the summary already. But I think what is important to know is that if you want to procure products you have to know what you are buying. You can know if you test it before happened. That is a lesson we are learning where sustainability is concerned but where the security of the Internet is concerned.
I've got a minute so I will make some advertisement about the coalition I'm chairing and coordinator of, Internet Standards Security and Safety Coalition, which functions within the IGF. Internet standards, as I say, is the main part we are working on, to make sure procurements start happening, especially within governments that they procure security by design but also to watch education and skills and how our youth trained on cyber security and tertiary cyber security and can we improve that in the future. There seems to be a skills gap of 20 years, we've been hearing.
We have been looking at IoT security, post quantum encryption. That is starting. As we speak we signed a contract Friday to research on it. We also hope to move to the next phase. The next phase is not just looking at the theory of our recommendations, but to start I can't think of the word in English, capacity workshop so finding are used by organizations around the world so world becomes inherently more safer for all the users of the Internet. Not just the privileged few who can afford it.
That is where we are. Internet international, at Internet.nl, that is me, I can say, because I will be replying to you. If you have any questions, please contact us there. If you are interested, you will get an invitation to the first meeting that we will be organizing pretty soon. We will let you know when the first meeting happens but will be somewhere in the spring of 2025. We are actually on time. We had not expected that would happen.
But we say our speakers kept their time. Didn't have to correct anybody at some point so that is all kudos here. Let me thank the speakers first. We have heard a lot about their experience. I think that is tremendously important, that we are going to improve ourselves and make ourselves better and keep making ourselves better. Looks like with Internet.nl it is certainly possible. Dorijn, thank you for monitoring. Coen, thank you and technicians for setting everything up and our scribe somewhere in the world, don't know where you are, but thank you for making sure everything is recorded. Let me stop there. Thank you for your attention. Hope to meet again pretty soon, bye bye.
There is one thing, I think we have a few t shirts, right? So if anybody wants Internet.nl tee shirt, it is yours.