IGF 2024-Day 3-Workshop Room 3- WS262 Innovative Financing Mechanisms to Bridge the Digital Divide-- RAW

The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

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>> All right.  So I'll go ahead and start the session.  Good morning.  Good afternoon.  Everyone.  May absolute pleasure to welcome you all to this important session.  My name is Risper Arose.  I serve Africa general capacity building coordinator.  For the local action network.  Initiative.  Which is collective effort led by the association for progressive communication, APC, and Rhizomatica in partnership with grassroots communities and support organizations in Africa, Asia and Latin America and Carribean.

We aim to directly support meaningful community center connectivity initiatives, while contributing to enabling system for the emergence and their growth.  Beenen Riching and insightful week.  Here at the Internet Governance Forum 2024.  Here in Riyadh.  Today, I have the privilege of moderating or discussion.  On a topic that lies heart of the digital inclusion.  Topic is innovative financing mechanisms to bridge the digital divide.

In this digital age, ensuring universal access to telecommunication infrastructure remains significant challenge particularly in developing countries.  Despite significant public and private investments, traditional approaches to telecommunications, infrastructure, while impactful in certain respects, have failed to achieve universal access goal even for basic voice connectivity for over two decades.

However, as saying goes, solution, emerged as a powerful entity.  Writing narrative driven by distinct investment priorities.  This provide us not only connect and subcommunities but also foster social, economic, development represent vital part of micro small and medium and enterprise ecosystem backbone of the developing countries.  That has been largely overlooked by traditional large scale network operators.

Remind us that connectivity is more than utility.  It is a foundation for empowerment and progress.

With all of we state, still face funding constraint it's and challenges sustainability and scalability and impact efforts to engage traditional commercial finance institution that fund communication infrastructure, have suffered three intrinsic difficulties that needs to be addressed.  Limited skill, they are highly level of risk and lower on investment to address this consequence, need to create enabling flexible policy regulatery and financing environmental encourages emerges of more innovative region and local investment models communityivity providers.  Allows them to expand cost effectively.  And in this respect, to improve the balance between proper maximization and reaching universal access.  Time has come to fully review where investment are made and how effective they are at addressing digital inclusion.

That is just a brief and position today we'll explore interplay of policy regulation and financing fostering connectivity solutions that bridge digital divide.  Our discussion will showcase new and innovative financing economies, investing in small scale infrastructure that already supporting emerging successfully supporting community centered solutions.

I am thrilled to a distinguished panel of experts and petitioners with us today.  Without further ado, I will give them each less than a minute to introduce themselves.  Start with joining us online.  I'll give the floor Dr. Emma Otieno.

>> DR. EMMA OTIENO:  Thank you very much.  I hope you can hear me.

>> RISPER AROSE:  Yes, we can hear you.

>> DR. EMMA OTIENO:  Thank you for the opportunity.  Event that I'm not able to keep up with the voice and video sometimes, glad to join this very, very important session.  My name is Dr. Emma Otieno.  Currently based in Kenya.  I'm on this call representing organization nonprofit organization known as women international digital inclusivity network.  It has obligation written in French.  So back in Kenya, also Work for the regulator.  Communication in Kenya.  My background mostly at the moment, specializing matters to inclusivity, specifically passionate about gender inclusivity.  Happy to be in this call.  Thank you very much.

>> RISPER AROSE:  Thank you so much Dr. Emma.  Happy to have you as part of panelists.  Next on go to Dr. Carlos Rey Moreno.  Carlos?

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  Hi everyone.  I'm online.  And name is Carlos Rey Moreno.  Managing government mentioned at the beginning.  Focusing on policy and regulatory.  Enabling environment for community center connectivity.  Especially policy relations.  But lately, I've been going quite some work around financing mechanisms as part of that.  Pleasure to setting up with you.  Joining.  Amazing to me.  Impossible this time around.  Thank you again.

>> RISPER AROSE:  Thank you so much.  Carlos.  Next, one is Jane coffin.

>> JANE ROBERTS COFFIN:  My name is Jane, joining you are United States.  And I'm speaking personal capacity, not professional where I work.  Based on my experience with over the last 28 years, most recently experience working with around the world, international financial institutions, international organizations, focused on connectivity, importance of how we can take a look at financing smaller community based networks or small IS Teas.  Pleasure to join you today.  Speaking in personal capacity.  None of the information that I'll be speaking about today is nonpublic.  All public information based on my experiencement thank you very much.

>> BECKY McGILLEY:  Thank you so much Jane.  

>> RISPER AROSE:  Thank you so much Jane.  Now, on also online in the room.  Online participants feel free to introduce yourself and where you're joining from.  Now, I'll come back to on site, speakers.  That we have.  I'll give this chance to introduce yourself.

>> pie is talent.  Two heatings.  Cofounder internet site chapter which we launched several community networks in Kyrgyzstan and also, representing global digital inclusion partnership which is member of consortium with care international and GSMA and implementing projects call woman and digital economy fund.  I'll talk about that as well.  Thank you.

>> RISPER AROSE:  Thank you.  Happy to have you.  Last but not least.  (soft audio).

>> Hello to all.  For joining this session.  My name is Lillian TAMORO part of the team of, NGO based in Columbia.  America.  We have been working with community networks, more helping communities to have their own 2017 approximately.  We have been involved in different projects with different areas.  I'm going to share it with you.  Some of the experience we have in Columbia right now.  (audio (inaudible)) ((inaudibley) (please increase audio) utilize outside information.  Not solely traditional telecom operators to sort.  All actors need to participate because as Risper was saying, after 20 years, divide that those business models are not able to close.  Because over this time, seeing to focus, asking to telephone, internet, how to meaningful connectivity, underscores that changing landscape.  Throughout the change landscape, business areas that need to profitability requirements of those operators continue to pose challenge pour these players to offer services that divide and remote, small population, low income.

Despite being here today, despite especially at COVID, discussing this issue, discussing issue persistent digital divide, this has been a longstanding challenge.  This wasn't reviews in mainland report.  In 1995.  It was known that private sector alone was not going to be able to close the divide.  Still, thatth that context, and many international financing, institutions, it was fought for the for profit model was going to be able to that.  Private investment were going to find, as to be able to finance this capital intensive industry.  Started to withdraw from the area, early nineties.  Because that private capital.  So but later on, as part of WSIS and there was a task force financing mechanisms that was created to precisely look at what could be done.  As it was real lied that private capital could not do it alone.    realized.  Digital fund that were started.  Digital fund was created.  Maybe not as intend initially, with constrictions did not quite solve the problem.

One of the things that the task force financial mechanisms, highlighted back in 2004, 2005, was finance.  From this graph of the World Bank, 2002, we have seen so many places, there is a probability Frontier.  Market gap.  Then access gap that market isn't going to be able to cover.  Public intervention is going to be necessary.  This actually led to the creation of many universal or that report on the task force and finance mechanisms influence many discussions for countries to create a universal service fund.  Limiting agencies to actually utilize them.  Implement them.  And some countries, such as US, and promulgated US, even before this type of reports, ever since this report and many other agencies, or funds have been created, report on the IPO mentioned that in 2022, percentage of members had agency of fund.  Adoption of the strategies, how it has worked with increasingly and is up for debate.  Some countries, massive force impact.  Other countries, there has been issues with its disbursesments many other things.  They were there to look at that problem perspective private finance wasn't going to be able to close at that divide.  Other findings from the that incorporated in the agenda that I, working to highlight.  Accept helping accelerate domestic finance and instruments including by supporting networking, based on local communities and strengthening capacities potential funds an creating them.

Agenda was adopted in 2005.

Is this is the for the future.  September 2024.  Three months ago.  Where additional divide is recognized as first objective.  Persistent divide there, it needs to accelerate.  Closing the digital divide needs to be accelerated to be sustainable.  Commitments there that I want to guide the presentation.  Today.  One is development of unlimited finance and mechanisms.  Including collaboration with governments, advance and relevant international organizations on the private sector.  Again.  Saying private and public and multilateral funds.  Part of the solutions.  Financing is part of the solution.

Also, need to invest local level.  2005, it is said again in 2024, 20 years after.  In order to provide safe and secure network quality including remote areas, so why the change?  Why are we still discussing this 20 years later?  I think our analysis, on this obligations, lead to the size of development, WSIS review.  There has been resource gone to developing countries.  And WSIS did include finance mechanism.  A fund.  Mainly result of other countries not wanting to make additional financial commitments.  Did not include financing mechanism.  Development to discourage Global South governments rely on aid from investing public infrastructure and services.  And after the period forgiveness in the earlier division of this, crisis is at the center of many of the issues seeing in the global economy as well.

The idea that financial mechanisms have not just, issues, also, need to include, there is a need to invest human capacity services to do this.  With capacity, it will not solve this.  Also, because regardless of private finance and public finance, regarding of the U.S.A., regarding of many of the other instruments, logic have been supportiving and using all the finances to support traditional income and operators and trying to support the return on investments and for profit and business model to do something that they are starting, that business model is not able to provide.  Investment they are seeking in those areas.  Again, something different needs to be done.  99% has gone to the very same operators we're using private finance for the operation.

Also public finance USF, multilateral bonds only use 1%.  Study from alliance for affordable internet.  Around 1% of the multilateral development funds community commitments in low and amid.  Income countries over the period 2006 relating to ICTs.  Was 1%.  5 billion over that period.

There has been some changes.  Some World Bank including ICT part of priorities.  Commission in Europe, global gateway.  G7, partnership of global investment.  Many, many more ininvestments.  Still those indevelopments are going to the same    investments going to the same partners, wait list and IPO are considering to do that.  Going to the very same, places and investment and funding similar things.  In many cases.  Private sector and private financing is funding.  P 5G, satellite, submarine cables.  Focus on profitable markets.  That maximize return of the share holders.  Not going into supporting initiatives for supporting interventions that could potentially close digital divide and address the issues that 30% of the system digital divide are facing.

As Risper was saying, ISO, many others, have been saying over the year, not.  Showing or ways of doing this.    ways of doing this.  Business case focus on the centralized local and community sin Enter initiatives    centre initiatives driven by completely different investment where it's not only they need to be sustainable, need to have some revenue streams to be sustainable.  But they have a different bottom line around social and environmental concerns and that move the interest.  Not only the sake of profit and return of the investment.  Investors.  Far from the micromore than medium size and businesses that are Risper was alluding to, part of of the Global South.  Taking part of telecommunications sector and they to be part of global communication sector that need for traditional and national based footprint.

This community center providers, can operate, sustainable.  As small scale.  Have a way more can I diverse range operators model community center instead of profit center, able to use other finance mechanisms to reduce cost center of the communications needs of communities rather than profit shareholders are seeking.

Initial teams seem, all members, have reached consensus that both telecommunications us development conference, digital divide, resolution, this type of complementary solutions are needed.  Not only are they government, McLennan potentialry conference.  All members that are green.  Plenty potentialry conference.  Needs to be need to look at McLennan potentialry access to solutions enable to close the divide.  Complementary solutions.  ITU in the universal service financing efficiency toolkit, is putting community on network as part of the solution that need to be considered.  Because when we are looking at way to finance the mechanisms, those that are able to do the same, at the lower cost, finance and mechanisms by themselves.  ABC coming up with financial assessment tool to compare Connecticutivity providers and finding having considering cheaper.  Not only consider cheaper, but is that they they bring along social inclusion related impacts to achieve men meaningful connectivity trailing deer dig Allan operators    that those traditional operators cannot afford.  How are they able to do this?  Investment comes from the use of themselves.  And they are also able to tap into other supports such as subsidies an Tina Grandinetti and donations from people    Julie Inman Grant and donations from people kind of align with that mission.  (grants) budgets and mechanism it's that private companies also use.  Such as recovering cost of hardware, price of sales or private finance.  More also include other elements such as barter transitions, action based subsidies membership fees, and others that public operators are not    sorry.  Private operators are not able to commit.  That's how they are able to provide pricing below market price sometimes it's based on cost recovery and sometimes it is even free of charge.  Depending on this other contributions sustainability members and other socially aligned, actors are allowed to partake.  (sustainability models) not only recommendations and that are being incorporated in policy in some countries not only existing municipalities able to do that at the lower cost, financial institutions themselves, Larkin corporating recommending governments to look at these as financing mechanisms.  Latin America and Asia.  Way of closing digital divide because traditional operators are not able to do so.

Role of commission in this report from 2021 looking at financing models for bridging gaps.  Uncorporates recommendations that recommends government to explore options of ability of funding allocations smaller providers such as community networks.  Recommendations potential.

>> SF to network propose international fund.  Scalable community net, could be funding and could ask clearing house knowledge best practices and potentially provide loans an other resources commissions.  We have countries that Argentina looking at supporting the community networks.  $3 million from the USF budget for 2020 to 2022 were made available to community members.  One would say, no, we cannot support community members because bigger operators.  100%.  Why we are resolutions.  Argentina allocate 0.63% of the budget to community networks.  So they could continue supporting other operations that they were doing with  99.30% of the budget.  Not that's taking, not that we are proposing and others are proposing should be right front and center of these initiatives.  This is about complementing, about testing things that haven't been tested.  Supporting things that haven't been supportived.

So just coming to proposed solution.  Coming to and end.  One about capacity buildingment again, we are trying to talk to WSIS, to talk to the task force and financing mechanisms because some of the finance are the same.  Propose new policy of financing mechanisms where could provide information service that provide access to independent advice on how to evaluate the formation, that many governments and regulators are with the private sector.  Prevent them from looking at other solutions that prevent them to negotiate as equals.  Such information is also relevant.  Social relevant to other stakeholder groups as well, to such as community based initiatives and other partners.

Because task force and commission are the same, building human resource capacity and knowledge is central for achieving WSIS objectives.

Diversifying ecosystem.  We have that, we have some countries, sustaining, national recognition.  License, for community center initiatives.  That's the extension more so than the rule.  That recommendation is on the AEU APU comes from the hullty lateral development bonds (IPU) other institutions need to be included.  Multi lateral) extreme line.  So licensing processes that use licensing    reduce licensing fees and make other enablers reporting and access to backbone available.  If it's illegal to do this, how someone is going to invest.  Right.

>> many investors that are already to invest in this if they were legal.  Please consider that when enable financial mechanism or supplemental for this.

Needs to be accompanied by racessen an capacity building programs to develop guideline of initiatives that could use productive these instruments.  At least that again with a finding from the task force financial mechanisms from WSIS that we're saying that policy and regulatory insin incentives more access policy needed for private investment.  Organizations and community members to continue to expanding ICP to rural and low populations.  Of the population.  That is to say, these were said in 2004.

Other recommendations that I'm making were said in 2000 so 4.  If we don't include them in 2005, 2024, 2025, we are not going to be able to implement it.  Not going to be able to invest in local they works in a way that they close the digital divide.

Two more points on financing mechanisms.  For that investment in local network initiatives to be effective.  New ways to make smaller products available.  Multilateral development bonds recommend supporting this.  But they don't know how to do it because meaningful investment in their country is $1 million.  $2 million.  $3 million.  This is small operatedder they don't need.  There is no need.  They could function with way less.  But we understand that making those dials available has the same transactional cost.  We need to look at prereducing those transactional cost, grants what we are doing as well as finding ways of risking those investments so the rates are lower.    increasing these investments.  People up there willing to use this.  Use reduce internet rates.  Ways working with local financial institutions that are public and that could benefit from those concession Allan loans and pass them on in this product.  They could be made smaller and with better rates.    concession., social indifficult and operators initiative and operators.  Could create projects standardized process.  Application to again reduce the cost.  This is not new.  Invest the in so many other sectors.  Could take the form of that it international fund as proposed by the commission.

DD C is talking about finance.  Those grants could be used in grants internal investment used to cover some of the transactional cost that I was alluding to.  But there is an interest on development finance.  Will is the UN financing for development countries taking place next week.  Sorry.  Next year.  After 10 years.  And that could look into all of this.  Could put operators that are looking at development, not at profit.  Center of this investment in telecommunications cases.  There is a risk of we are seeing this already.  Of those profit seeking companies looking at development finance that we need to be aware of and be authentic.  So development financing used for development not used for profit.  And for increasing shareholder value.  Last comment.  Also, was mentioned by Risper.  Need to include developments between    improve the balance between profit maximization and goal of reaching universal access.  The time has come reviewing where those investments are going.  How effective they are when they are targeting inclusivity.  Really invite stakeholders to implement solutions proposed in this presentation.  We are open to discuss, lessons, work together do that.  But really development should be put at the center and not profit maximization.  Thank you very much.

>> Thank you so much.  For that.  For the discussion.  We have       sound (inaudible)) we move into panel discussion.  And we key IP for our different speakers that are lined up.  Start with Thailand.  Put this, challenge.  And a deally talk about looking into, also execute within work that you've done.  And also, it's perhaps you can talk why community activities solutions need to address this.  Thank you.  Well, something that we have been talking about is that for the private sector, is the rural communities are not something that they want to address.  Because those are communities with low income.  Cannot pay high prices for the community services.  But also, they are people in the remote areas and investments that companies making those spaces, is difficult they have to return to they invest in those spaces.  Because we have few people.  And also, they the cost of the deployment in some of the rural areas, so, so high.  This is because you need transportation you need security also.  Sometimes for example, basic services, in electricity.  Are not level.  Have to implement also other not only telecommunications and infrastructure.  Cost to deploy telecommunication is so high.  In those areas not enough to cover the cost.  This is if we don't have account for example, difficult to access some territories this Columbia, inner Columbia areas, (?) very hard to go to those areas.  It's something that that is not easy to address.  Even for implementing, but supports sustain infrastructure.  When you need to repair something or something like that.  Not so easy to go to that areas.  Other side, governmental programs have failed also in sustained initiatives.  They invest a lot in money, putting some in, resources finished, projects also finish.  And we have a lot of I don't know how to say.  Like infrastructure not used.  Getting all and without use.  In rural areas.  You can see antennas a lot of infrastructure not used in rural area because of the problem of the government finish and no one could sustain the work of that kind of equipment.

About the other question, why community centers connectivity solutions are suited for this.  One of the principle things flexibility of these kind of initiatives.  Flexibility to adapt to the divert and unique conditions at that every communities have.  Then you, it's so difficult that you see community networks works equal in many of the communities.  Each community network is different.  Their own capacities.  Communities can establish their own infrastructure adopt to go the ash adapting geographic conditions and necessities they have.  Sustainability model that they adopt is different and depends on the context, income community have, they also traditional ways to exchange, I don't know to say it in English.  Exchange, we could be.  Additionally, community established, own governance process to define how or why the community network is for.  And other reasons is not all all reasons but just one more.  Possibility to share basic cost for example, connectivity for example, transportation technical people to paying to help to fix some problem or community can share the cost, can have different ways to, invite to the people to their house.  Not just about money.  It's also how community organized themselves to have this everything they need to sustain the community network.

>> Thank you so much for the community to speak community network.  Wanted to share story about how small investment to a community network helped unlock major investments into infrastructure.  Just before coming to IGF, I was reading news in Kyrgyzstan.  News that very remote village in Kyrgyzstan was connected to electricity.  Minute centre of energy personally came to the village and announced that now village has electricity.  Ministry of energy.  Few weeks before that ministry of transport came to village I'm going provide you a road, village had no road, no electricity, no internet before that, mobile operator call units came and installed mobile tower.  All of this is happening months adventure months, in village which previously nobody has heard of.  If you heard of would be once in a decade for some disaster happened or something.  The president himself flew to the village in a helicopter to say that we are going to help the village with infrastructure.  Why all of this was year before that, village was connect to the internet as connection network which a small grant from internet society foundation.  Around very first thing that the villagers did first to connect to relative it's around the world.  Now we have connectivity, please call us we can call you.  Second shake video of village saying, Mr. President, Prime Minister we don't have a road, don't have electricity, don't have mobile connectivity please help Carlos way saying million to you Arce required to connect this develop AJ.  $10,000 to provide internet.  This small investment village it's were a able to attract hundred of thousands of dollars from the government to do all of this infrastructure.  We are really excited that we as internet society could help village to be connected and this was interesting kind of case, which is not PP as we know, I counted of of 60 partnership public government, private sector.  ISP provided spectrum.  Partnership was there.  Provincial or municipal government partnership was there.  People believe in the vacation rental.  Partnership of Civil Society organization and international donors like ISO foundation.  European Union, US embassy provided small funds to allowed us to connect it village internet.  Learned how to do community networks in IGF like this, many years ago, in Guadajara.  That's where we learned that there is such a movement of community networks and I think today, there is a discussion that next year decision do we need the IGFs.  Of course for villagers, yes we do need them because they make a real impact on the people on the ground.

So this kind of my brief introduction.  Hopefully later on I can share information about potential financing opportunities for such initiatives to close the digital divide especially gender digital divide.  I wanted to talk about the woman and digital economy fund.  I think we have colleagues online to working with women led initiatives and this fund can provide support in terms of financing, in terms of technical assistance and know how and in terms of policy and regulations.  Thank you.  Back to you.

>> DR. EMMA OTIENO:  Thank you so much.  Great story.  Give what community can do.  Migrating for this.  Sort of initiative.  Also, Lillian thank you so much for highlighting from the community aspect and government based on this type of (?) pulling together, able to sustain this business infrastructure.  Even use the cost of this type of community center connectivity.  Now next on our jump into the next segment.  Hear insights on innovative policies.  In the room, Dr. Emma Otieno.  Also, Jane coffin.  Talk to us what you believe, flexible community oriented as well as how can fund more transparent, efficient and inclusive to support more local connectivity providers.  (speaker speaking softly) talk to Jane and finish with Dr. Emma.  Covers.

Jane Coffman.

Struck me so much.  Talk about local approach connectivity, obvious corollary you need localized approach to policy regulation and financing.  That means looking at Carlos said, different ways of assessing risks, different ways of bringing blended finance different pots of money different times different funders and different instruments financial instruments.  Just very logical.  That you would look at this differently now.  Carlos noted, 1985 missing link report laid this out for us years ago.  Regulatory policy environment changed so much over time.  And does probably need to be recalibrated.  Local circumstances we are all seeing.  How do we find different ways of changing our policies and regulations to fit and adapt to making sure that different size networks, which is different demand, and supply side economics, than it larger network investments, how do we take a look at this again?  And I think Dr. Emma will probably have a great deal to say here too.  We've got to take it some risks as policymakers and regulators and rethink how we're looking at local connectivity, infrastructure, assessment feasibility studies, what is out there, in you a country and how we reapproach, reimagine, not only that policy and regulatory environment, because investors want to see data.  They want see facts.  Want to know how many people are not connected, where is that community located?  What is the potential estimated cost of connecting that community whether it's through satellite technology, fixed infrastructure, wireless infrastructure, or wireless solutions alone.  They want to see the facts.  They want to understand, we also need some of those larger investment organizations and some of the localized investment entities to relook at those demand and supply side issues, what the regulatory and policy frameworks are that are in existence and what needs to being changed from that regulatory policy side and financial side to match that local connectivity challenge.

One thing I would say is that regulators and policymakers have a fabulous tool in their hands something called notice of inquiry.  Gathering of information process.

>> you can put on a notice an example different organizations ask different organizations to provide you with information and you can pull in all of that information to reassess, realign and reimagine what you need to do.

20 this year digital community working group, even acknowledged that innovative financing is super important to connectivity.  That is from the Brazil process this year.  Rolling into South Africa next year.  2025.  So there's a recognition highest level of government, highest levels of global organization and financial organizations that innovative approach to FSP financing blend approach to finance Carlos indicated need to be look at.  You have to the process regulatory corollary that will match.  How do we bring in money?  Certain point locally different vision of risk.  Old way looking at risk going to say this out loud my personal opinion colonial.  Derisk investment differentcy.  Local level, local facts with data, invest have confidence.  Locally bought into the solutions that could be provided.  So really, if we're looking and reimagining how we can bring in just talked about network, in Kyrgyzstan, that network is completely different network economic.  Policy and regulatory solution based on what type of technologies can be brought in, how local people can be brought in to also help with that connectivity solution.  And so investors are going to look at this differently.  Governance perspective look at this differently as well.  It's matching that local sensible.  Local factors in place and just taking steps back.  I'm going to circle back around.  Sorry.  It's a little lit here.  My brain is probably little circular.  Late here.  Regulators and policy make, give yourself a little breathing room to reimagine.  To take a step back and work with the public, work with different financial institutions, work with ITU and development financial institutions.  Work with multistakeholder community.  You also have APC, eye sock, others.  Where you can come in ISOC and get that information from all of the organizations who know that local circumstance.  And then of course some of those ear it's and financiers and invests know different type of finance instrument it's that can be brought in.  Really are talk about taking step back, gathering more data, looking new models being brought in, shear fact that if we haven't B & B able to solve some connectivity problems assistance 1985 forward.  We have seen how community net border security can solve that problem with networks could solve that problem.  Reimagine USF, see they can reimagine licensing and bringing community and other complementary base networks.  Really can create a matchup with the financing side now.  And with looking at the different demands supply side.  I'm going stop talking so Dr. Emma can jump in here.  I'm really excite to hear more from panelists.  And others but I think we really do have amazing opportunity to just rethink, step back and gather more data.  And regulator and policymakers use that tool notice of inquiry to gather more information.  Thank you.

>> DR. EMMA OTIENO:  Thank you very much Jane.  Carlos and rest of the speakers giving pertinent points to very important subject of discussion.  Augment many points already been stated in terms of how regulator can be enable for the community, networks and in times coming in, nebula for licensing example ends.  Using existence.  Made a bit of progress, very passionately very intentionally.  So when it comes to supporting community centered networks, connectivity, one of the things it can start.  Should be good example for all the other regulators to go, is really take the issue of access gaps for the market when it comes to connectivity.  Gaps and usage gaps very seriously.  Think that's where it can get start to create this appetite and create justification of where to place the community centered networks and where actually how to fight for their place in the fair market regulation and policy.

So for the digital one.  Study that was being able to take.  It went forgave.  To you'll actually really talk a microscopic view of the true gap.  By that time connection in terms of population coverage gotten upward of 78.  In deep getting to the true gap space of what shared access.  With that, space like Kenya, enjoys combining of regulator also being responsible for the service front.  Speak to each other.  When there is data, service fund brings onto the table, literally    regulator strings in able to come on board wishes like how can we use this findings to update the market structure?  How the case of finding a plates to review the market structure finding a place and starting to process incorporating the community center networks in the regulatery framework in Keano yeah.  20, first day, license    2020.  Fair market was adopted and    in Kenya,) since then, several community networks have been licensed.  That's another regulatory support that has actually been example tended to enable dd extended enable this sort of networks.  Moving on, regulator should also move away from being police to enabling, asked which is enabling.  For instance, been a lot come from the Kenyan center.  Regulator is reaching out and really matching community networks and constituents.  Speaking to ABC LocNet and other capacity building facilitators trying to jump in.  Can we have courses capacity building opportunities actually center to supporting community networks operators?  Seeing capacity a bit low.  Also a bit not really enabled.  So regulator comes to table champions Fort Shafter for the right and speak for them, priorities.  Ensure not have a condition where we're talking about the biggest market is hements and biggest support challenges without including community centered networks enabling role that the regulator play in this perspective.  This year, several collaborate difficult initiatives with Africa communications capacity building arm of sector.  ABC and regulator ministry to really ensure that capacity of constituents in this space, is being built.  So practical example that actually, this is enabling them.  Regulator.  Prior to that, issue of making that space very clear.  The existence of licensing frameworks, needs to be additional guidelines that can really provide sort of things like hand books, things like how to really domesticate or rule out networks in different technologies.  Previous speaker talked about challenges facing this initiatives.  Challenges in some areas terrain.  Other areas security related.  Others just about ability and financial support.  So actually coming up with guidelines that incorporate feedback from this operators so that out there, so people who are interested to come into fill in this gap, able to be guided.  Uniformly in terms of how they can go about it.  Even in terms of accessing support.  Where do you start from?  Comes license apart from being there.  How do we start?  Who do you talk to?  Where do you go to?  Find they're quite not exposed most from the community.  Rural.  Need a lot of guidance.  Really broken down to granular guidance to enable them.  Again, speaking with the Kenyan situation, something that is ongoing.  And persons augments guidelines to support them is happening.

Also, issue of sustainability.  Find that being subject that is very critical but has to be center of this discussion all the time.  And if regulator coming in the front being able to support the community networks.  When you have license community network, don't want to license to one.  Discussions put on the table from the policy perspective?  Bringing on board other agencies as collaborative it's.  For instance feedback community networks in Kenya.  Revenue agency want to expand revenue base. go for anybody seems to be putting up a business. Digitals on those tables.  So that you are like speaking for them and saying that this is model which is working like this, which should be exempted.  Talking about exemptions in terms of taxation, clear exemptions actually enacted into law.  Speaking to other players like ministry of finance.  Central Banks.  What avenues can actually come on board to assist to this, community networks.  Especially that we are seeing.  They have to get into the leveraging, usage gaps.  So they come up with by the of products that can create that sustainability.  Between the connectivity and the keeping business running.

That's ability sustainable major issue.  Regulator to champion.  Through various forums.  That can be able to listen to whatever is being proposed as avenues and strategies of enabling.  Sustainability of this interest.  Quickly speak to 2 or 3 points touch on issues how this transparent include extensive ways of supporting this.  Inclusive ways of supporting this.  We have to rethink, funds mostly, what are other portions that can be used to finance community, connectivity or networks.  Key point here, speaking from again, most universal service using subsidies key support to telecommunications bodies operatives.  Find operatives Kenyon situation, subsidy to network community seep centered network not for profit.  Unlike the others categories of licensees.  So start starting move away from the traditional way of support to thinking wider about even if it's government, managing universal service fund, grant actually requires by the of change in laws like the public financial management laws.  Issues of learning, other day had conversation with Brazil.  Good way.  Fund loning small operative community center networks.  To loan collaboration.  Major shift.  Ministry of financial and bank getting involvement engagements community center community networks.  In that space so you get feedback that can include, decisions being made.  Also, strategies like for instance, seen the current strategies, other development for space of Kenya.  Community networks, community connectivity priorities.  Like when, how many do they want support.  What framework should be put in place.  What kind of stakeholder engagement and take it.  Of course, monitor Iing evaluating how that is being implemented.  Last one is really collaborating with agencies or governments or other bodies.  Say IP CNET work.  People who the globe    IPC network.  Champion community centered activities it's support areas reresearch can have updated data to inform decision.  Universal service fund and side of origination.  Because they have the part of the pie that is makes decisions that can impact on this.  But require digital, not have that he Roa resource.  Expect that all in instances to make decisions.

Thank you very much.  Let's see what other available opportunities can be keep on discussing about.  So much about it.  Thank you I appreciate it.

>> thank you so much.  (audible very soft) perspective.  Jane thank you so much for joining at this hour.  Also just sharing really importance of regulators.  Imagining financing for initiatives community    community solution and gathering more data, as well as    audio soft) what that looks like in    implementing environment for community centered connectivity solution.  Of course, just highlighting role of US F.  How that connected    framework can really look into transparency of inclusive universal service fund.  Communities and (?) out of time.  Because of that, we'll jump into    questions an answers.  If you have a discussion around that, as we round out this very (?) conversation.  Start with the online audience.  Hirira, any questions?  Can you hear me?  Any questions online?

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  Connectivity.  Here before.  No longer.  Can read them out if you want.  Comments in relation to I believe made when was speaking.  How we ensure energy he perspective, neighbors for internet governance.  And there was others that.  Request Jane to expound farther perspective request around how best practice areas, resources could be created.  Answer that one in the Chat.  Then maybe development guidelines.  Highlighted by Dr. Emma.  Those questions around Jane to expand on the risk perspective.  Talent around energy perspective.  Top Nick the Chat so far.    a topic in the Chat so far.

>> thank you so much Carlos.  So we can    (   audio very soft).

>> JANE ROBERTS COFFIN:  I'll be very quick.  Fit in more people.  Have look looking at traditional checklist and risk matrices that are generally used for investment.  How look at Heu we would adapt them and look at our own risk tolerance and specific market or area we're talking about.  And what the feasibility is of developing that infrastructure building it out.  Different regulatory and policy parameters in the country and by reassessing risk, also taking a look at there's some complications with people take a look at risk and look at a country, I'm not sure we can actually do business here.  We, if we're talking about different focus from the community based perspective, with the backing of different governmental or so organizations in the country, different communities of interest, where you're going to look at the tolerance for risk, checklists for risk, and whether it's social investment risk model, which is different, you're going to have different factors that you would use from both governance, policy regulatory and then even from a more systemic financial perspective where there's some very different models use for assessing risk.  This might be one of those topics that would be really great for another IGF.  Or for to one of the speakers has type in the Chat about what some of the best practices might be for reassessing, assessing this in the country.  How we can work and speak with donors at a different level speak their language, from investment perspective, but reassess how that would work with local community involvement.  I'll stop there.  But it's more a question of if there are traditional ways of assessingry risk tied to grants and loans, assessing Rices tied to grant or loans how government might look at project coming into its country or local multistakeholder approach to building connectivity, would be, put together, we have to start to talk part those traditional models and rebuild framework.  Over to you again. speaker inaudible).

>> Thank you so much.  I think it's a great question.  Thank you for asking about the governancement segue in the publication available to bring your attention to.  Called actions to global agenda digital divide.  Here today to speak about financing mechanism gender digital divide and working focus oar on gender digital divide, major public globally this initiativer digital economy fund.  Launched by USA I believe, Gates Foundation and other donors.  Started $50 million fund.  Growing to 80 million and more.

[Audio difficulties]

>> Thin initiative identified three areas where there are has to be a lot of work done. one is financing.  Funds set apart for to support woman led organizations or organizations working on closing gender digital divide.  Secondary though how to.  How to do this kind of work.  Opportunity for technical assistance to organizes organizations.  Finally third major area policy and regulations.  Myself and my colleague sitting here?  This room as well.  We are, working on with the government, on that are interested and willing to do reforms to close agenda digital divide.  In this publication, publication collected interesting promising practices from around the world.  This will be an urban publication.  Hopefully that next year we can see, Kenya case, would enable, other governments also to get inspire and to work on closing the gender digital divide.  Finally want to see that five core areas where their work is being focused on.  One is access and opportunity.  Second is relevant digital tools and services.  Third is digital skill and literacy.  Four safety and security online.  And finally, as Jane was mentioning, importance of data, crucial for policymakers and regulators to make decision.  Thank you.

>> Thank you so much.  Absolutely we can talking about how we gender, around financing for this type of initiatives.  (?) now I will just hand it back to the onsite participants.  How many questions we have in the room.  Couple of hands.  Go ahead.  Thank you very much.

>> Thank to you all families.  This session was very comprehensive.  It needs (?) I'm from Berlin.  Ministry of economy and finance.  I'm also leads one, woman be free.  Provide employment for training employment for ladies and women in our country.  We're talking about community networks, something very important for us.  I want to best tips of this process to bridge a good community network where we don't have problem on how we can make steps sustainable for a time.  My first question.  Second one is ladies and women, how we can connect put on the table partnership data, such organization to provide knowledge somewhere to another countries like mine in Berlin.  Can we make partnership, knowledge leads to our different communities, how can we do it now?

One, before we are talking about, is it available for everywhere region of the world or specifically for some region and from some kind of stakeholders.  Specifically.  Thank you very much.

>> Thank you so much.  For those three questions.  I would give the mic to Carlos.  Seen you have shared some of the links in the Chat.  Thank you so much for sharing those things.  You can come in and then also hear from Lillian and TALNT go ahead.  TALANT on the first question I hope someone in the room uncle share with you some links on the top.  I believe they provide some of those guidelines.  (so.  Links).

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  I haven't changed nothing about my set up.  I haven't changed nothing about my set up.

>> JANE ROBERTS COFFIN:  I can hear you.

>> Give me one minute.  One second.  Can you speak now?

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  Hello.

>> We can hear Carlos.  I think it's your side.  We can hear Carlos clear.

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  Might be something in the room.  Set up of the room.

>> Our it's on our side.

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  You can hear me something.  Somehow.  You cannot hear me through the line?  I'm confused.

>> We can't hear Carlos in the room.  So we are so the sorting that out with the technician we can hear from Lillian and TALAN and get back to you.  Carlos.

>> I think question about sustainability big question.  Because TALANT) I think we in Columbia have methodology.  When we tried community, appropriated network beginning of the process.  Series of steps to create a group.  To sustain the operation but also, uses of community network, when there is problem, fix the network.  I think that is one of the things that make that network can sustaining the time.  To have a group of people in the community.  That lead operation of the community.  I think that is so important.  Try to find those persons that like the technology, but also, like to serve the community, and try to stay engaged to the community network and sustain the operation of their community network.

Then other part would be try to find financial network.  Sustain expenses of the community network.  The way to sustain the connectivity, but try to be creative on that.

Then sometimes people also make some I don't know, for them, easier to have expenses or other communities, they just country, country solution to sustain the example expense of the community.  Different in each community.  I don't know.  I think thank you so much.

>> Thank you so much.

>> Thank you.  In terms of building community networks, I think I could point out two organizations that are very strong.  One Internet Society.  We have colleagues here.  Guide for step for step guide it's building community networks.  Other one is association for progressive communications APC.  Carlos I think could probably share some links.  Very good resources.  In our case, Kyrgyzstan, engaging local community biggest factor.  Has to be bottom up interest and approach.  In terms of funds, your question, this fund is available for organizations around the world.  Global South.  Of course, most priority will be the areas where gender divide is their biggest challenge.

>> Finally I would like to say that's important to exchange experiences between it communities.  For us, has been a key to have some encounter where people from different communities can know what is experience of other communities connect change the problems, because for they said, okay, makes me see that is not just my problem.  May be many of us have the same problem.  And many of us can find the solutions for some problems.  Exchange of experiences I think is so important.

>> Thank you so much.  Lillian.  I don't know.  If we have one for Carlos.

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  Hello.  Can you hear me?  No?  Can you hear me?  In the room?  You cannot hear me?  In the room?

>> I can hear you online.

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  It's fine.  Okay.  Bye bye.  Thank you for everything.

>> Jane Probably wanted to draw attention to huge conference in June.

>> JANE ROBERTS COFFIN:  And July.  This is Jane).

>> We can't hear you for now.

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  We don't hear them.

>> DR. EMMA OTIENO:  They can't hear us online.

>> I think so.

>> JANE ROBERTS COFFIN:  That's sad.

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  Are you going to go to Brazil?

>> JANE ROBERTS COFFIN:  I hope I can.  Conference looking interesting.  We should talk more.

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  Mechanism engaging  with the conference.  Engaging.  Bringing input.  Runoff runoff he'll reach out to you.  Have a catch up.  (.

>> JANE ROBERTS COFFIN:  Reach out to you.  Really important to reassess risk.  Really do.  Keeping so much, I investment locked up.  Hello IGF.  Can you hear us?  Hello, hello.

>> CARLOS REY MORENO:  Administration here?

>> DR. EMMA OTIENO:  We need to have separate workshop.

>> JANE ROBERTS COFFIN:  Use different frequencies in each of the rooms.  Talk about tricky.  Did this in BAKU in 2012.  It's good.  They have open ceiling that's why.  It's hard to hear.